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progree

(12,098 posts)
5. 59 percentage points of that 65% is loss at the thermal power plant producing thermal power plant electricity
Sun Jan 5, 2025, 07:34 PM
Jan 2025

From the energyknowledge base link very importantly it goes on to say (as a matter of clarification)

It is estimated that of the 65% of primary energy lost, 59% of it is lost in the generation process. This includes:

Waste heat occurring due to inefficiencies in the process of converting primary energy to electricity. This makes up about 54% of the primary energy lost.
Electricity used internally by the power plant during operations. This makes up about 5% of the primary energy lost.


59% is the primary energy lost in a thermal power plant (coal, oil, natgas, nuclear) to produce electrical output, including station use. (So the thermal power plant is 41% efficient in producing electricity).

First electricity has to be made before we have the electricity to produce the hydrogen through electrolysis. In that post 64.8% was the electrolysis efficiency and 50% is the fuel cell efficiency (using midpoints) for a round trip efficiency of 32.4% in converting electricity back to electricity. (That fairly well agrees with the video's "optimistically 40%" .).

So to have a thermal power plant coupled with a hydrogen storage system, we have an overall efficiency of 41% * 32.4% = 13.3%. (And that doesn't include any power line losses)

More detail: https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=3367144
including a look at what if the initial electricity is produced from solar/wind rather than a fossil or nuclear thermal power plant. And using a H2 storage system vs. using a battery storage system.

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.nor any mention of the inefficiency of our current electrical distribution systems.. "Losses of electricity through the delivery system are significant. The U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA) estimates that losses through the delivery system are 65%.


Just so we're all clear that 65% is not the losses from the transmission and distribution system (i.e. the power lines), as most people would read it.   91% of that 65% (59%/65% = 91%) is the fuel heat wasted at the thermal power plant itself.

I don't at all disagree that our power system is very wasteful of energy.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Wow, that was a classic attempt at a smear campaign. Think. Again. Jan 2025 #1
Video is about 5:30 m:s long (everything after that is an ad for brilliant so can skip). progree Jan 2025 #2
Yeah, no mention of the fact that the materials used in containing H2 are impervious to embrittlement... Think. Again. Jan 2025 #3
59 percentage points of that 65% is loss at the thermal power plant producing thermal power plant electricity progree Jan 2025 #5
The inefficiency is still there no matter what the cause of it... Think. Again. Jan 2025 #6
The reason I bring up the thermal power plant at all is because your citation from energyknowledgebase progree Jan 2025 #9
I use that citiation specifically to counter the position that Hydrogen is an inefficient way to produce electricity.... Think. Again. Jan 2025 #11
And I include my response to clarify what that citation is about. Because that citation, calling it a "delivery system" progree Jan 2025 #14
Yes, so to sum up... Think. Again. Jan 2025 #16
Green hydrogen is the future GoreWon2000 Jan 2025 #4
"Sabine" is simply a youtube influencer. Think. Again. Jan 2025 #7
And we're all message board randos with our own agendas as all human beings have. progree Jan 2025 #10
I would gladly show you my own credentials in ecology, but, it's the internet. Think. Again. Jan 2025 #12
Sabine is putting out false information about hydrogen GoreWon2000 Jan 2025 #17
You're correct... Think. Again. Jan 2025 #18
I'm done arguing with the hydrogen promoters here. hunter Jan 2025 #8
Biden's Department of Energy will have enough to deal with anyway soon. Think. Again. Jan 2025 #13
"The math didn't work forty years ago when I first pursued it" Caribbeans Jan 2025 #15
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