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LostOne4Ever

(9,693 posts)
17. The majority of Cis Women agree
Sun Jul 9, 2023, 01:12 PM
Jul 2023

Cis women are one of the most pro-LGBTQ demographics. It was a cis woman replying to Ana and it was statement by the Biden Administration (which is made up overwhelmingly of Cis men and women) that set Ana off in the first place.

That said, some might not understand and have had their rights attacked so much they are scared this is yet another attack on them. All we have to do is explain it to them so they can understand and they will change their minds. I think this to be a good info graphic to show them:

https://www.instagram.com/p/Cftsc0dLPV0/?igshid=OGIzYTJhMTRmYQ==

Of course there will be the occasional transphobe or TERF who refuses to understand but no amount of proof will ever get through to them. They object because they want to offend and exclude. Worrying about TERFs is like worrying about racists when you tell them they shouldn’t use racist language.

What if their true feeling is that they don't like being referred to as a 'birthing person' or 'person with a uterus'? What if they are hurt or offended and don't like being defined by their reproductive abilities, and/or simply prefer terms like woman and mother?


Firstly, they are still women and mothers. We point out that inclusive language does not change that. We can also point out that by using inclusive language it does not take that away from them but it prevents the same thing that is upsetting them (feeling offended or defined by their reproductive functions) from happening to trans people. Not only that but it prevents cis-women who can’t be mothers from feeling invalidated as well. Because inclusive language helps every one including cis-women!

I might logically surmise that some women will feel slighted, like trans folks are taking something special away from them, even though they are otherwise supportive.


If they are supportive (or even just a neutral caring person with empathy) they will listen and understand that there is no slight against them and in fact that the language prevents others from being slighted in the same way that they thought they were being slighted.

I imagine a scenario where an expecting person might visit a bookstore maternity/child-rearing section and find that every book there has a name like 'A Guide For Pregnant Persons', and every reference in that entire book uses terms like that, and 'birthing person', etc. There's going to be a lot of women hostile to a change of that sort.


There are already books that have titles that are inclusive and they are quite popular. For example,

https://www.amazon.com/What-Expect-When-Youre-Expecting/dp/0761187480/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?crid=IUBJYRQTIF0B&keywords=what+to+expect+when+you+are+expecting&qid=1688920212&sprefix=what+to+expect+when+you+are+expecting%2Caps%2C459&sr=8-1

Not one word about mothers or women in the title. That said, using inclusive language does not have to mean they don’t use the term woman in the title either. A title like “So you are expecting a baby! A guide for every cis-woman, trans-man, or non-binary person planning to give birth.” Though I personally would just say “…a guide for everyone who plans to give birth.” Myself.

That said, if they are hostile, just as with all issues where someone is hostile we just explain it to them. If they are hostile because they mistakenly feel offended then they will see that no offense was meant and that the goal was to actually prevent offense and to include people that actually have been excluded for practically forever they will change their mind.

Some people were hostile to using non-sexist language and felt offended at first but the feminists of the past changed their minds and we can too.

I say things like this out of caring, I want y'all to succeed and get all the rights and acceptance that are due to you, it's just there's occasionally things that you're asking for right now that I just sense are going to make it more difficult for you, that I think might go over better a little later down the line. Asking the world, essentially, to stop saying 'mother' and use 'birthing person' from now on in all generalized cases (i.e. we don't know which term a person prefers) ... it's a big ask and risks a backlash is all I'm saying.


If we don’t push then things don’t change for the better and “a little later down the line” never comes.

That was how it was for every civil rights movement in history. Martin Luther King lamented the lack of support from white moderates and feminists were told they were moving too fast. But it was by pushing through and changing minds that they succeeded.

And it is not a big ask. No bigger than saying “flight attendant” over “stewardess.”

When I look back on how far gay rights have come in my lifetime, I get a strong sense that the support in general of cis straight women, played a big role in that process. Acceptance of gay rights always polled higher in their group than it ever did with cis straight males, and I'm sure still that's still the case. It's a factor that's at least worth considering IMHO


Cis women support trans right far more than cis men even in the UK where TERFs have gone mainstream and have repeatedly tried (and apparently failed) to turn women against trans people:

https://www.them.us/story/a-majority-of-uk-cisgender-women-support-trans-rights-survey-reveals

This whole issue of inclusive language is just rhetoric trying to make it look like there is a divide between cis-women and trans people when there isn’t. The vast majority of Women aren’t fooled by this transphobic nonsense having seen this same tactic used against them during the women’s right movement began. Those who do get concerned but are not biased against trans people will listen and understand.

People who argue past that with concerns are just concern trolling.

Speaking of which. By he point of this thread is pointing out TYTs turn toward transphobia. Not to debate inclusive language.

Recommendations

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Nothing bothers me more than when people on the left sell us out LostOne4Ever Jul 2023 #1
And it gets worse LostOne4Ever Jul 2023 #2
They're stupid & cruel to do that.. I've Cha Jul 2023 #3
They have been bigots for A LONG time. Behind the Aegis Jul 2023 #4
Sadly lot of my "liberal" FB friends still trust them LostOne4Ever Jul 2023 #5
So I just have to ask ... which is the official, appropriately Political Correct nomenclature? Hugh_Lebowski Jul 2023 #6
Not all mothers are women LostOne4Ever Jul 2023 #7
My phrasing? Hugh_Lebowski Jul 2023 #10
Where in the article does it say anything about "political correctness?" LostOne4Ever Jul 2023 #12
I don't disagree with too much of what you're saying Hugh_Lebowski Jul 2023 #13
If they identify as mothers then that is what they are LostOne4Ever Jul 2023 #14
"Using inclusive language like "those who have given birth" achieves that. Hugh_Lebowski Jul 2023 #16
The majority of Cis Women agree LostOne4Ever Jul 2023 #17
I'm not going to sit and argue endlessly with you ... you're dead set on this gambit Hugh_Lebowski Jul 2023 #18
All of those things came about from activists pushing LostOne4Ever Jul 2023 #19
I'm familiar with the Letter, and I understand the point Hugh_Lebowski Jul 2023 #20
Also trans women can adopt or make babies via sperm vercetti2021 Jul 2023 #8
I understand, and I hope you are someday :) (nt) Hugh_Lebowski Jul 2023 #11
I stopped paying attention to the young turks, Cenk and Kasparian a very long time ago LetMyPeopleVote Jul 2023 #9
Here are some good reasons to ignore Cenk and the Young turks LetMyPeopleVote Jul 2023 #15
Thank you for getting this message out. lapucelle Jul 2023 #21
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