Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
 

iverglas

(38,549 posts)
34. not being concerned about fault ...
Wed Feb 8, 2012, 02:28 PM
Feb 2012

That isn't actually an entirely reasonable thing to say. Our society does concern itself with fault. All human societies always have. We have laws and we punish lawbreakers. We assign blame and consequences.

It is reasonable, I agree, to help people protect themselves. If anybody had sat me down and somehow managed to get it across to me that the world was not all like me, that hitchhiking around the country wasn't a matter of just exposing one's self to random "bad rides" and the low odds of encountering them -- that there were real bad people out there looking for me (which was what did happen) -- I might have thought twice.

Same thing for many risks we are subject to. If kids were actually talked to about what the risk of unwanted pregnancy is and means, rather than just being told not to have sex, or told to be careful, they might be more successful at avoiding unwanted pregnancy. Equipping people with knowledge and strategies to avoid risks is not a bad thing. It's a good thing.

It needs to be accompanied by the lesson that failing to avoid a risk is not grounds for feeling shame. I've said this about unwanted pregnancies a lot: that what women feel now, when they have an unintended pregnancy, is stupid and unworthy. The same applies to women who are sexually assaulted (who of course may also suffer the shame often imposed on women who engage in sexual activity at all, even coerced). They failed to avoid a risk they could have avoided if they had only ..., and this makes them to blame for what happened to them, because a more intelligent, more worthy person would have avoided it.

Myself, I was excessively smart, but also young, naive and obstinate. And broke; never forget that women don't always have better choices available than the one that led to the problematic event. It would have taken a fair bit of work to persuade me that the risks involved in hitchhiking on a lovely sunny August day with a male friend in peaceful southwestern Ontario on a well-travelled highway, rather than spending the cigarette budget on a bus ticket to visit my parents hours from where I lived, outweighed the benefits.

The lesson I did need was to trust my instincts. That's a really important one for women to get. My male friend wasn't going as far as I was, I didn't like the ride because he was dull and had already given off a slightly creepy vibe, I was going to get out where my friend did and pick up another ride before my route veered off from what the ride had said his direction was a couple of hours farther down the road, my friend said it was a good ride and why not stay with it, and I did. My gut sent me increasingly stronger messages after that, but it was too late.

Give people the knowledge they need in order for their instincts to work, help them devise strategies for avoiding risk and dealing with situations when it materializes. Help them to be agents, to direct their own destinies. In all imaginable ways.

But if they don't manage to acquire those skills, or fail to apply them in some given circumstance, and that is the time someone else victimizes them, never ever let them accept blame, let alone use any discourse of blame in talking about it. Help them to learn lessons from the experience, about themself and about the world.

And acknowledge that no matter how savvy a woman is, there are situations where her strategies will not succeed. Women do not always have alternatives; some women have to work late at night, some women have to live alone without adequate security measures. And all women just have to go out into the world all the time and cannot predict who else is going to be there and cross their path. And women do have to trust other people, and misplaced trust is not always a personal failing.

I'm saying all this because I think it is really important to focus on women's ability to protect themselves, rather than on the normative discourse of how women should protect themselves or are responsible for protecting themselves (and not saying it directly in response to the post above). Given information and help to strategize, that ability will be enhanced. Just saying women oughta do it will not necessarily help them to avoid risks, and it may lead to further self-blaming by women.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

No/Stop should mean No/Stop to BOTH men and women. It doesn't always, but a preponderance of power patrice Feb 2012 #1
It sounds like the results of a poll in a backward male dominated third world country where women libinnyandia Feb 2012 #2
And how do these women think one SHOULD end a date that is going bad? saras Feb 2012 #3
This is Sad. Amazing how we have a blame the victim society. Justice wanted Feb 2012 #4
This too is human nature. WingDinger Feb 2012 #5
those survery results are horrifying. after all these decades of trying to talk, to instruct, about niyad Feb 2012 #6
I doubt the results would be much different among DUers. nt redqueen Feb 2012 #7
a truly sad thing niyad Feb 2012 #8
I believe it would probably be worse here, given our country's backwards attitudes. chrisa Feb 2012 #48
a third of respondants women who flirt are partially responsible for being raped. 2% of rape false seabeyond Feb 2012 #9
"Only 2% of accused rapists are convicted" Lunacee2012 Feb 2012 #14
not to mention the fact a woman can be raped more than once. i was with three friends. 3 rapes seabeyond Feb 2012 #15
Yup, it happens a hell of a lot more then reported. Lunacee2012 Feb 2012 #16
Needs more data One_Life_To_Give Feb 2012 #17
walk downtown, go to college, work.... regardless of social economic environment seabeyond Feb 2012 #18
Maybe, but I would like to see the data say that One_Life_To_Give Feb 2012 #23
I think you are assuming iverglas Feb 2012 #24
the point being, any person does not live all of life in one cloistured little safe environment seabeyond Feb 2012 #26
Guess my life experience is a bit different One_Life_To_Give Feb 2012 #30
and... and for me, as a woman, with friends, mother, nieces, aunts.... that really does not matter seabeyond Feb 2012 #31
that's all lots of fun iverglas Feb 2012 #32
it is interesting and noted, how i said i read 80% and the poster pulls out 20% seabeyond Feb 2012 #33
Mary Koss has decent data but it's old One_Life_To_Give Feb 2012 #35
maybe what you could help us with iverglas Feb 2012 #36
Point is Personal Experiences are Data not Statistics One_Life_To_Give Feb 2012 #37
well you've missed my points iverglas Feb 2012 #40
i will just start the first time i remember. 12, in the lunch line the boy behind me seabeyond Feb 2012 #38
And has that problem been fixed? One_Life_To_Give Feb 2012 #39
let's look at the topic of this thread iverglas Feb 2012 #41
Post 17 One_Life_To_Give Feb 2012 #43
How does this relate to the topic of blaming women for being raped? nt redqueen Feb 2012 #44
there's just something about that RAINN iverglas Feb 2012 #45
the discussion is.... the large portion of our female population being harrassed, assaulted and seabeyond Feb 2012 #42
I will back you up on knowing very few women Lunacee2012 Feb 2012 #46
*Awful.* BlueIris Feb 2012 #10
The defense of the patriarchy is automatic, and not subject to analysis. redqueen Feb 2012 #11
The patriarchy must be very pleased with this. CrispyQ Feb 2012 #12
Gender difference is most interesting One_Life_To_Give Feb 2012 #13
we do this to psychologically protect ourselves. as long as we can blame other women for their rape La Lioness Priyanka Feb 2012 #19
Just like how thinking that if you pee on your rapist, he'll go away. Neoma Feb 2012 #20
well that one is more intentional, i doubt these women realize what they are doing La Lioness Priyanka Feb 2012 #21
Some do... Neoma Feb 2012 #22
I had a little debate with a health professor a few years back I am the OP Feb 2012 #25
yes, i teach both my boys and girls ways to be safe. an yes, the younger professor is right seabeyond Feb 2012 #27
not being concerned about fault ... iverglas Feb 2012 #34
To be fair, it is totally the guy's fault. nt Lunacee2012 Feb 2012 #47
Wait, is this the same study Lunacee2012 Feb 2012 #28
your last sentence made me laugh. losts of serious of late.... in these threads. lots of posters seabeyond Feb 2012 #29
Latest Discussions»Alliance Forums»Feminists»Women say some rape victi...»Reply #34