Feminists

tammywammy

(26,582 posts)

155. There was a much longer thread years ago on the phrase

Thu Feb 9, 2012, 01:48 PM

Feb 2012

I don't have the ability to hunt it down right now. It was enough that I do remember it happening and it stuck with me.

I've only stated that the phrase is considered by some here to be racist. It's like the phrase tar baby, there's always a discussion regarding the connotation of it. Now, personally I don't think 'calling a spade a spade' is racist, especially in the way iverglas used it.

Edited to add: since this was brought up in this subthread, I also believe bitch and cunt shouldn't be allowed on DU.

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group host / statement of purpose [View all] iverglas Jan 2012 OP

sounds good to me. nt seabeyond Jan 2012 #1

ahem iverglas Jan 2012 #2

I answer myself iverglas Jan 2012 #3

Sounds good to me! redqueen Jan 2012 #4

This message was self-deleted by its author Bunny Jan 2012 #5

true, no need for limits ;) iverglas Jan 2012 #6

I object to limiting discussion to just today. There are many DUers who don't visit forums daily, Gormy Cuss Jan 2012 #7

sorry, I didn't mean! iverglas Jan 2012 #8

Then may we please start over with just a discussion of the SoP and try to get consensus on that? Gormy Cuss Jan 2012 #10

I agree that a discussion of the SoP is a good idea. redqueen Jan 2012 #13

To be honest, I read it the same way initially. Gormy Cuss Jan 2012 #24

again ... iverglas Jan 2012 #15

I for one agree with you completely. redqueen Jan 2012 #17

I've been around this group for a very long time and I've seen many serious disputes Gormy Cuss Jan 2012 #22

how would you suggest the phrasing to be more inclusive? on edit... i also seabeyond Jan 2012 #25

It either needs to explicitly limit the statement to discussing those things outside of a feminist Gormy Cuss Jan 2012 #27

I can't agree iverglas Jan 2012 #29

This reminds me of "bitch" wars in GD. Gormy Cuss Jan 2012 #31

it had already reminded me of the "douchebag" war iverglas Jan 2012 #38

Wow. redqueen Jan 2012 #48

i think you should be the main host La Lioness Priyanka Jan 2012 #32

The year should probably be updated there. The statement says 2005. :) Starry Messenger Jan 2012 #9

heh heh iverglas Jan 2012 #11

I really like this: Starry Messenger Jan 2012 #16

agreed La Lioness Priyanka Jan 2012 #35

I've tried to respond to comments about iverglas Jan 2012 #12

Oops! I posted before I saw your answer to GormyCuss. Starry Messenger Jan 2012 #14

maybe simple is best! iverglas Jan 2012 #18

I think that is really thoughtful and good. Starry Messenger Jan 2012 #19

ah, third wave iverglas Jan 2012 #21

statement of purpose - thoughts? iverglas Jan 2012 #20

I like the rephrasing of the porn/prude bullet n/t Gormy Cuss Jan 2012 #23

I find it problematic, perhaps in the extreme Remember Me Feb 2012 #181

I would update the year from 2005 to 2012, to reflect the move to DU3. ZombieHorde Jan 2012 #26

check post 20 iverglas Jan 2012 #28

i am not comfortable with this statement of purpose La Lioness Priyanka Jan 2012 #30

any chance of you answering direct questions? iverglas Jan 2012 #33

ofcourse i am speaking as a feminist La Lioness Priyanka Jan 2012 #34

you got it iverglas Jan 2012 #36

are you lgbtq? if so you get to decide who is and who is not a homophobe La Lioness Priyanka Jan 2012 #37

you almost seem to take my point (edited) iverglas Jan 2012 #39

actually i do think its gender not sex. transwomen for instance, imo belong to the feminist movement La Lioness Priyanka Jan 2012 #41

On the divvying up and labelling of women... Violet_Crumble Jan 2012 #40

because sometimes straight women want things that queer women La Lioness Priyanka Jan 2012 #42

let's stop beating around the bush iverglas Jan 2012 #43

i have yet to see why you get to define feminism and i don't La Lioness Priyanka Jan 2012 #44

I have yet to see where I said I did (edited) iverglas Jan 2012 #45

you came into this thread of over 300 posts and made ONE. one post. on mine. it was a jab and you seabeyond Jan 2012 #46

not everything is about you and your feelings La Lioness Priyanka Jan 2012 #55

thank you so much for taking the time to clear that up for me. nt seabeyond Jan 2012 #58

Nol but a direct question about attacks YOU made to HER most certainly IS Remember Me Feb 2012 #182

yes, my vacation is a priority over an internet argument. La Lioness Priyanka Feb 2012 #185

seabeyond, please tell me why you referenced me in that post Gormy Cuss Jan 2012 #65

#30. i want gormycuss as main host seabeyond Jan 2012 #67

Thanks, I missed those. Gormy Cuss Jan 2012 #73

but nothing else. there is nothing else to say about that post? seabeyond Jan 2012 #74

What things? That's what I'm not understanding... Violet_Crumble Jan 2012 #109

I want seabeyond to be a co-hostess JustAnotherGen Jan 2012 #47

you wanna be one too? ;) iverglas Jan 2012 #49

I can't be one JustAnotherGen Jan 2012 #50

snork iverglas Jan 2012 #53

I would like to say "amen" to your fifth paragraph. (nt) redqueen Jan 2012 #51

I agree. I think it's the crux of what this group is about. CrispyQ Jan 2012 #108

i was having a blast at the dinner table tonight talking about all the many groups seabeyond Jan 2012 #110

Me too Remember Me Feb 2012 #183

As a lesbian and someone who considers herself a feminist, I have a comment on all this back & forth justiceischeap Jan 2012 #52

You can't put the definition of feminism in a box ... but it seems like some can with people seabeyond Jan 2012 #54

Now I don't know if I'm getting your point justiceischeap Jan 2012 #56

ok. thanks. nt seabeyond Jan 2012 #60

You can have an opinion and state it whenever you wish Lisa D Jan 2012 #57

i have never expected, nor would i ever expect 100% agreement. nt seabeyond Jan 2012 #59

I think it is a matter of acknowledging whatever privilege one might bear in a conversation or Starry Messenger Jan 2012 #62

Perfectly stated. Lisa D Jan 2012 #66

find one post, ONE post i have not worked at, struggled with to hear the other side. ONE. seabeyond Jan 2012 #69

I'm sorry, but I was not criticizing you in any way. Lisa D Jan 2012 #71

but we are not demanding the same. it CAN NOT be just one sided. we cannot say we are putting in seabeyond Jan 2012 #72

Why are people picking sides? Lisa D Jan 2012 #79

that is the point. the whole point i have been arguing from post ONE. sides. we have the GD sides seabeyond Jan 2012 #82

why are people picking sides?? iverglas Jan 2012 #102

I'm not sure why you felt Lisa D Jan 2012 #104

uh iverglas Jan 2012 #106

I'm not dismissing your concerns. Lisa D Jan 2012 #107

and i KNOW why you felt people were picking sides. and i know you are trying your best to be seabeyond Jan 2012 #105

Taking things too personally -- Remember Me Feb 2012 #184

of course that is a factor. nor have i ever denied any of that nor been unwilling to discuss. seabeyond Jan 2012 #68

I am also speaking globally as a reply in the subthread to justiceischeap's post. Starry Messenger Jan 2012 #75

so... because i am a middle aged women i should readily accept i am a prude, anti sex, asexual, seabeyond Jan 2012 #76

so, not only do i have to listen to all these demeaning comments over and over and over from the men seabeyond Jan 2012 #78

Was justiceischeap saying any of those things in her post? Starry Messenger Jan 2012 #81

Is there something that can be done to amend that going forward? seabeyond Jan 2012 #85

I don't see the with us or against us. Starry Messenger Jan 2012 #89

i ahve asked a couple times how it needs to be worded. i dont care. i havent heard anyone put a seabeyond Jan 2012 #91

sorry, but you just do not know the history iverglas Jan 2012 #103

You are not a prude, not anti-sex, and not asexual, etc. Lisa D Jan 2012 #83

thank you for talking to me like a person, instead of a caricature. i think that is what i was seabeyond Jan 2012 #86

as the person who posted this in the thread where I was attacked iverglas Jan 2012 #61

Okay then. Let me be the first. Gormy Cuss Jan 2012 #63

gormy? can you find any posts where this other side (since i have been put on a side i dont want) seabeyond Jan 2012 #70

seabeyond, I've argued repeatedly over the first bullet point because I believe it was and is Gormy Cuss Jan 2012 #77

what you're hearing ... iverglas Jan 2012 #88

What you're hearing is not what was said. Gormy Cuss Jan 2012 #93

let's not be disingenuous iverglas Jan 2012 #101

i ahev to agree with iverglas. you guys are saying that lioness has issues. i dont get what they seabeyond Jan 2012 #90

Thank you for getting what I was saying. justiceischeap Jan 2012 #95

how do you want it worded so you are comfortable with you. i want your whole body in, not just a seabeyond Jan 2012 #96

I posted it in the thread you started. justiceischeap Jan 2012 #97

uh huh iverglas Jan 2012 #84

Question Lisa D Jan 2012 #64

me personally iverglas Jan 2012 #92

Thank you for your answer. Lisa D Jan 2012 #94

It seems you're angry with me justiceischeap Jan 2012 #80

there we go iverglas Jan 2012 #98

"I am simply one of many who has had too much of being attacked, and not engaged." justiceischeap Jan 2012 #99

Please don't leave. Lisa D Jan 2012 #100

thank you for writing out what i was too busy too La Lioness Priyanka Jan 2012 #111

do we need to start fresh with a new thread and put this one behind. someone type the SOP, seabeyond Jan 2012 #87

there are some who need to spend an hour reading this thread iverglas Feb 2012 #112

oops! look what my mailbox gave me as I posted that last iverglas Feb 2012 #113

This isn't helping things... Violet_Crumble Feb 2012 #114

really? then how about this one? iverglas Feb 2012 #115

unbelievable; beyond belief iverglas Feb 2012 #116

Where is this "let's all get along spirit"? How ironic you've forgotten what thread this is. CreekDog Feb 2012 #117

Are you serious? I use the phrase 'to call a spade a spade' all the time... Violet_Crumble Feb 2012 #118

I'm damned if I can find it now iverglas Feb 2012 #121

Is it that important to you to use the phrase "call a spade a spade"? CreekDog Feb 2012 #131

there is NO racial connotation in the term. YOU are creating one. but that is not the facts. nt seabeyond Feb 2012 #134

Actually spade is a racist slur used against black people. tammywammy Feb 2012 #141

And "to call a spade a spade" has nothing to do with that usage. redqueen Feb 2012 #142

I've updated my post. tammywammy Feb 2012 #148

One person. redqueen Feb 2012 #153

There was a much longer thread years ago on the phrase tammywammy Feb 2012 #155

I don't think it's racist the way she said it, either... redqueen Feb 2012 #156

I will also say that tammywammy Feb 2012 #160

tar baby is and has always been, hands down, a racist term derived as a derogatory seabeyond Feb 2012 #157

yes. it is. that is why i didnt use it. and then i did research on spade for spade because of seabeyond Feb 2012 #144

Yes, there are people on DU that say the phrase is racist. tammywammy Feb 2012 #150

yet FACT would argue what some people think. but, i recognize we have had this discussion on our seabeyond Feb 2012 #152

What are your thoughts on the words "cunt" and "bitch"? redqueen Feb 2012 #139

yes i've called out name-calling in all kinds of forms CreekDog Feb 2012 #158

I'm sorry, but the notion that "call a spade a spade" iverglas Feb 2012 #140

and now in other news ... well they ain't gonna have iverglas to kick around for a while! iverglas Feb 2012 #178

oh no! i hope you get better quickly. Scout Feb 2012 #179

Why lie? Your photo is jacked from the Internet Whoa_Nelly Feb 2012 #187

Have you ever broke your stock photo? LeftyMom Feb 2012 #188

............. Whoa_Nelly Feb 2012 #189

Depending on where you live, yes, "to call a spade a spade" would have racial overtones justiceischeap Feb 2012 #127

we understand. if you will google the saying, you would know that spade for spade was established seabeyond Feb 2012 #132

Well, it's a common turn of phrase here in Australia and has been for ages... Violet_Crumble Feb 2012 #171

well why don't you tell me? iverglas Feb 2012 #119

Post removed Post removed Feb 2012 #120

ha,yeah iverglas Feb 2012 #123

+1 ellisonz Feb 2012 #176

thanks for that! (nt) iverglas Feb 2012 #177

You're welcome. ellisonz Feb 2012 #180

disagreeing with Iverglas is breaking the rules of the forum? CreekDog Feb 2012 #124

calling her a bigot for saying spade a spade. the hostility of your post. false claims seabeyond Feb 2012 #125

you see NOTHING beyond the nose on your face, and i'm not too sure about that. Scout Feb 2012 #126

for taking iverglas to task over what many call a racial slur CreekDog Feb 2012 #128

Who calls that a racial slur? redqueen Feb 2012 #135

y'know actually iverglas Feb 2012 #143

Oh right, good point. I missed the start of it. redqueen Feb 2012 #146

another point. not about objectionable pageant because every person that had issue stated FIRST seabeyond Feb 2012 #151

Ha yes, I'm probably the only one who is so militant about that stuff. redqueen Feb 2012 #154

we have defended four gay WOMEN and we have been attacked for each one. seabeyond Feb 2012 #147

Well I am one person (but I guess you're saying my opinion doesn't count as your ONE DUer) CreekDog Feb 2012 #161

Are you fucking serious? redqueen Feb 2012 #164

The use of the word and/or the specific term is unwise CreekDog Feb 2012 #165

The use is problematic, I already agreed elsewhere about that... redqueen Feb 2012 #166

I didn't call that poster a bigot --nope. CreekDog Feb 2012 #167

Oh yes, that's right... that's you not knowing the context - again. redqueen Feb 2012 #169

And ah yes, priorities. I ignored this part because it is patently untrue. redqueen Feb 2012 #168

Post removed Post removed Feb 2012 #186

+1 ! Vanje Feb 2012 #170

No, but turning up just to have a go at a member of this group sure is... Violet_Crumble Feb 2012 #172

i never used the term "Pearl Clutcher" CreekDog Feb 2012 #129

ummm..... you really did not read iverglas's posts before going into your rant and criticism? seabeyond Feb 2012 #130

well i quoted her other posts CreekDog Feb 2012 #133

pearlclutcher, post 115. fuckin bigots by prism, post 116. misrepresented seabeyond Feb 2012 #136

This message was self-deleted by its author redqueen Feb 2012 #137

I read them, I did not *memorize* them CreekDog Feb 2012 #162

you didnt address the accusation of bigotry with pearl clutching. you didnt address the people in seabeyond Feb 2012 #163

something I'd also just like to point out iverglas Feb 2012 #122

You're saying you have never used the "alert" function? CreekDog Feb 2012 #138

are you saying that you don't tell the truth iverglas Feb 2012 #145

do you have any intention of participating for the group according to the group's stated purpose seabeyond Feb 2012 #149

of course I am following the rules and as host, if this discussion is against them CreekDog Feb 2012 #159

Point me to the rule that says it's okay to appear out of the blue and abuse a member of this group. Violet_Crumble Feb 2012 #173

need a quote of what you're talking about. CreekDog Feb 2012 #174

Here ya go... Violet_Crumble Feb 2012 #175