Gun Control & RKBA
In reply to the discussion: This message was self-deleted by its author [View all]jimmy the one
(2,770 posts)tortoise: (Benjamin Oliver) he is the lone voice in support of collective rights view of the second.
And you can post even one reputable contemporary single voice in support of an individual rkba disconnected from militia service? Pls do.
tortoise: Justice Story says nothing that would lead one to believe he didn't see the second as an individual right, even if it was in support of the militia clause
He certainly did, observe:
Story excerpted: .. among the American people there is a growing indifference to any system of militia discipline, and a strong disposition, from a sense of its burthens, to be rid of all regulations. How it is practicable to keep the people duly armed without some organization, it is difficult to see.
Isn't that clear enough that justice Story thinks the American people should be 'duly armed' within the organization known as the militia?
Note in my first cited paragraph (below) by Story, he praises the militia for essentially the same things he praises 'the people' for, thus providing a militial link to both.
Scotus Justice Joseph Story, 1833: The importance of this article will scarcely be doubted by any persons, who have duly reflected upon the subject. The militia is the natural defence of a free country against sudden foreign invasions, domestic insurrections, and domestic usurpations of power by rulers. .... The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered, as the palladium of the liberties of a republic; since it offers a strong moral check against the usurpation and arbitrary power of rulers; and will generally, even if these are successful in the first instance, enable the people to resist and triumph over them.
And yet, though this truth would seem so clear, and the importance of a well regulated militia would seem so undeniable, it cannot be disguised, that among the American people there is a growing indifference to any system of militia discipline, and a strong disposition, from a sense of its burthens, to be rid of all regulations. How it is practicable to keep the people duly armed without some organization, it is difficult to see. There is certainly no small danger, that indifference may lead to disgust, and disgust to contempt; and thus gradually undermine all the protection intended by this clause of our national bill of rights. http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/amendIIs10.html
tortoise: Justice Story says nothing that would lead one to believe he didn't see the second as an individual right, even if it was in support of the militia clause
Justice Story certainly did support the militia interpretation. Note below, he says American people want to be 'rid of all regulations', then immediately follows that with 'How it is practicable to keep the people duly armed without some organization, it is difficult to see.' The regulations were within the militia of course, without which it would be difficult to keep the people duly armed.
Story then says: There is certainly no small danger, that indifference may lead to disgust, and disgust to contempt; and thus gradually undermine all the protection intended by this clause of our national bill of rights.
Which clause was Story writing of in the last sentence? the militia clause of course, since 'the people' would still be well enough equipped with guns, if the militia system was discarded.
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