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Surf Fishing Guru

(115 posts)
33. Declaratory clause . . .
Wed Dec 15, 2021, 03:04 PM
Dec 2021
guillaumeb wrote: Then what was the point of specifically referring to a "well-regulated militia", and directly linking it to the right to keep and bear arms?


The first half of the 2ndA -- the declaratory clause -- is an inactive, dependent statement of principle, a maxim of our republic. The wording of the amendment conforms with the varying proposals from the states which mirrored the provisions in their own constitutions. In their constitutions the states lumped themes with similar objects (intents) together in their bills of rights. Most of the states had a provision that had the intent of binding government powers of force. These provisions had three prongs:

a) The citizens retained the right to arms
b) standing armies in time of peace were dangerous to a free state and not to be maintained
c) the military should always be subordinate to the civil authority.

Here are some examples of state provisions that were in force through the Revolutionary War and the enactment of the federal Constitution and the Bill of Rights:

1776 North Carolina: That the people have a right to bear arms, for the defence of the State; and as standing armies, in time of peace, are dangerous to liberty, they ought not to be kept up; and that the military should be kept under strict subordination to, and governed by the civil power. . . .


1777 Vermont: That the people have a right to bear arms for the defence of themselves and the State—and as standing armies in time of peace are dangerous to liberty, they ought not to be kept up; and that the military should be kept under strict subordination to and governed by the civil power.

1780 Massachusetts: The people have a right to keep and to bear arms for the common defence. And as, in time of peace, armies are dangerous to liberty, they ought not to be maintained without the consent of the legislature; and the military power shall always be held in an exact subordination to the civil authority, and be governed by it.

1790 Pennsylvania: That the people have a right to bear arms for the defence of themselves and the state; and as standing armies in the time of peace are dangerous to liberty, they ought not to be kept up; And that the military should be kept under strict subordination, to, and governed by, the civil power.



The separate prongs of these directives were never considered interdependent (that all must exist for any to be actionable, i.e., that if a national standing army does exist, the right to arms of the citizens of that state can be extinguished.

Actually, it is clear that the standing army declarative clauses can never actually be brought to fruition. They are merely declarations of inactive / legally inert principle. It can't possibly refer to state action because the states are forbidden to keep troops by the federal Constitution and it certainly can not be interpreted to prevent the federal government from exercising its supreme and preemptive Art I, § 8, cl's 11, 12, 13 & 14 powers to organize and direct national armed forces.

The declaration in the federal 2nd Amendment, "[a] well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State" is inextricably meshed (philosophically) with, "as standing armies in time of peace are dangerous to liberty, they ought not to be kept up." To the framers each represented the same sentiment . . .

The declaratory clause of the 2nd Amendment only re-affirms what once was a universally understood and accepted maxim; that the armed citizenry dispenses with the need for a standing army (in times of peace) and those armed citizens stand as a barrier to foreign invasion and domestic tyranny (thus ensuring the free state).

If you really need the dependent declaratory clause to say something (or do something) it can only be read to be a declaration of why the AMENDMENT exists and as such it does not create, qualify, condition, modify or constrain the pre-existing right; it only states one particular political reason why the fully retained right is being forever shielded from government interference . . . To allow an organized militia to be formed calling the citizens to action.

.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Gunzz are an essential part of freedumb. guillaumeb Dec 2021 #1
Saw it, rec'd it and may I say an excellent post! nt AndyS Dec 2021 #2
Yours is not a mainstream view even within the Democratic party hack89 Dec 2021 #3
The SCOTUS defined what Antonin Scalia pretended to find in the 2nd Amendment. guillaumeb Dec 2021 #4
A view also held by many progressive Democratic leaders hack89 Dec 2021 #5
Au contraire sir. discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2021 #6
Except the unorganize militia is for men between 17 and 45 hack89 Dec 2021 #7
As I mentioned in the 3 points I listed per my in practice reference... discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2021 #8
I further consider that without an individual RKBA having a militia would be near impossible. discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2021 #9
Then what was the point of specifically referring to a "well-regulated militia", guillaumeb Dec 2021 #10
Since you ask... discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2021 #12
But the US does have a well-regulated military, guillaumeb Dec 2021 #16
re: "...which eliminates the need for any unregulated militias." discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2021 #17
Scalia "found" a right that had been hidden. guillaumeb Dec 2021 #23
Just a few points here discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2021 #27
As to Justice Stevens: guillaumeb Dec 2021 #28
I will reread the dissent and get back to you. n/t discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2021 #29
Perhaps this from the dissent will explain my take. discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2021 #30
However: guillaumeb Dec 2021 #31
Would that be... discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2021 #32
Archaic grammar would be my guess hack89 Dec 2021 #14
Declaratory clause . . . Surf Fishing Guru Dec 2021 #33
And are the members of this unorganized militia ever ordered to join the organized militia? guillaumeb Dec 2021 #11
I think your effort to blame Scalia is a distraction. discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2021 #13
In the past but not in the last 100 years hack89 Dec 2021 #15
still trying to make "gunz" a thing, huh? krispos42 Dec 2021 #18
Said the frog in a pot of water . . . AndyS Dec 2021 #20
Only a minority of US residents own guns. guillaumeb Dec 2021 #24
Gun owners outnumber the following minority groups: krispos42 Dec 2021 #26
Perhaps you could explain... discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2021 #19
Just read the topics covered in the OP. nt AndyS Dec 2021 #21
R.E. Militia. AndyS Dec 2021 #22
Agreed. Very well argued. eom guillaumeb Dec 2021 #25
Scalia overturned? Surf Fishing Guru Dec 2021 #34
No response ... not surprised. PTWB Dec 2021 #35
Well . . . Surf Fishing Guru Dec 2021 #37
Yes, read the Federalist papers . . . Surf Fishing Guru Dec 2021 #36
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