2016 Postmortem

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)

207. Look, Gran. I pointed out that there are

Mon May 9, 2016, 10:48 AM

May 2016

2 main factions in SBS's support -- the larger liberal faction, largely Democrats with their eye on the prize, and the Bernie partisans whose hostile, shamefully aggressive behaviors are giving him and the liberals a really bad name. You should be insulted at people mistaking your behavior for theirs, instead of referring to "us" and identifying yourself with those behaviors.

I am also an "old-time Democrat."

I am a lifelong strong-left liberal Democrat who wants essentially everything you want. If I had thought Bernie could accomplish more than Hillary Clinton, instead raising the concern of a failed presidency from bad planning and overreach, I would have been supporting him from the very beginning.

And yet you reject me like those shamefully behaved people, badmouth me like those people, insult me like those people, pretend I'm something I'm not in order to insult me like those people, and pretend I've never been something I am in order to insult me. In your mind you have turned a natural ally into an enemy -- just like those people. And my guess is that it is in order to insult me. Because it's sure as hell not to unite to win this election and continue the progressive wave that began with Obama's election.

You really might read this again.

Convergence refers to an individual's tendency to become more similar to members of any group they're in and this is something that is noted across the board – even your language tends to become more similar. As such if you identify strongly with a group such as a political party, you will unconsciously become more like them and this will cause you to become gradually more zealous.

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I'm curious: What is your end game with Bernie? [View all] LaydeeBug May 2016 OP

The end game is to spend 24/7 attacking the Dem nominee, and... JaneyVee May 2016 #1

To be fair, they're not ignoring the Orange One. baldguy May 2016 #5

Dead on! pandr32 May 2016 #55

lol...I didn't see that coming...good one...nt Henhouse May 2016 #69

+1 n/t JTFrog May 2016 #70

Lol. Also to be fair, there are TWO major SBS factions -- Hortensis May 2016 #71

All very true. n/t Maru Kitteh May 2016 #168

I wouldn't be surprised if at least some of the leftist radicals and rightist reactionaries have Cal33 May 2016 #209

I would be surprised if they weren't here and am sure they are. Hortensis May 2016 #216

Bernie supporters like me have always compromised in every election and voted JDPriestly May 2016 #227

Hate Bernie supporters? I WAS one until Hortensis May 2016 #231

As a Bernie supporter, I find the Hillary supporters to be hateful. JDPriestly May 2016 #235

You and 0 professional observers. They're too Hortensis May 2016 #236

Hillary and her establishment supporters are making a huge mistake in dismissing Bernie JDPriestly May 2016 #248

Don't deflect. You projected the SBSer's famous hostile Hortensis May 2016 #249

The pendulum swings both ways Seeinghope May 2016 #262

No, it really doesn't. We're no angels, but we're Hortensis May 2016 #265

True extremism on either side is polarized Seeinghope May 2016 #268

If you were a Sanders supporter, you would agree with me. JDPriestly May 2016 #264

Twas a time when in some parts of our country, abolitionists and those who aided JDPriestly May 2016 #263

Damn true luxpara4 May 2016 #254

They wouldnt attack Bernie as they do if they werent aware he's a better candidate Baobab May 2016 #267

+1 uponit7771 May 2016 #98

yep, and they don't think it's *them*. nt LaydeeBug May 2016 #130

Let her do what she wants! Baobab May 2016 #138

He asked for Bernie supporters end game not whistler162 May 2016 #153

I think Hillary supporters have to ask themselves the same question about the FBI report leveymg May 2016 #204

There IS no Democratic nominee yet... no matter WHAT you think the definition of is is. cherokeeprogressive May 2016 #243

I think that the political fringes tend to be more self absorbed. They find it harder to except Trust Buster May 2016 #2

Post removed Post removed May 2016 #19

Except for the fact that all of the quotes you posted are true. By definition, the political fringes Trust Buster May 2016 #31

Go Trust Buster!! nt eastwestdem May 2016 #64

Stop insulting Democrats. FlaGranny May 2016 #29

I disagree. I believe Sanders and his supporters are fringe. The President touched on this Trust Buster May 2016 #33

If you can call FlaGranny May 2016 #43

Obama has not had control of the House since 2010 nor 60 votes in the Senate. A fact he reiterated Trust Buster May 2016 #44

Compromise does NOT mean starting by gutting one's own position and principles and... k8conant May 2016 #77

Well that's not an accurate characterization of how the President works anigbrowl May 2016 #152

That doesn't sound like a response to what I wrote. k8conant May 2016 #156

I think you should look back FlaGranny May 2016 #188

How do you figure that compromise is the only option? FlaGranny May 2016 #193

He may share some FDR values, but FDR was a rich establishment pol. just like Hillary. OhZone May 2016 #131

Although, FlaGranny May 2016 #187

Bernie has far more voters than either Hill or Trump. You so easily defend the corrupt status quo larkrake May 2016 #45

Far more voters than Hillary ? You don't even have to be good at math to know that's wrong. Trust Buster May 2016 #46

Indys and horrified anti-trump Repubs will vote Bernie over Hillary larkrake May 2016 #50

Anti-Trump voters will vote for Sanders you say ? You mean the people that don't think Trump is Trust Buster May 2016 #72

Message auto-removed Name removed May 2016 #200

Hillary has more votes than Sanders or Trump. Where'd you get those numbers? brush May 2016 #73

Where does Hillary get her numbers, is the serious, real question. ancianita May 2016 #256

Ahhh . . . the voters. brush May 2016 #257

Exit polls, you say? Or the machine data reports? ancianita May 2016 #258

I don't get where you'e going with this brush May 2016 #259

Tell me why Hillary's voters numbers are so credible. Yesterday, Baltimore, decertifies its primary ancianita May 2016 #261

They aren't right wing AgingAmerican May 2016 #61

Compromise is fine. Compromising by opening the bidding Kall May 2016 #180

FlaGranny, SBS has 2 main factions of supporters: Hortensis May 2016 #75

Seriously? FlaGranny May 2016 #86

Well, my best guess would be that you are basically liberal but Hortensis May 2016 #87

That's quite insulting. FlaGranny May 2016 #195

Look, Gran. I pointed out that there are Hortensis May 2016 #207

Personally, I think a nominee under a criminal investigation gives Democrats a bad name. Fawke Em May 2016 #223

You are attributing FlaGranny May 2016 #234

You are insulting with this condescending nonsense.. mountain grammy May 2016 #208

My Dad who is 85 yrs. old is an FDR Democrat and he voted for Bernie oregonjen May 2016 #127

Sanders apparent lead against Trump is a mirage, due to the fact that a tiny fraction pnwmom May 2016 #132

Sanders has never posed enough of a threat for HRC to truly go negative on him Maru Kitteh May 2016 #174

The only way to go negative on Sanders FlaGranny May 2016 #197

Proudly wears it? He put "democratic" in front of socialist when he decided redstateblues May 2016 #252

The word "democratic" FlaGranny May 2016 #260

+1 uponit7771 May 2016 #99

I am starting to agree with you... nt LaydeeBug May 2016 #102

The end game is the Presidency inchhigh May 2016 #3

Bernie will not be the nominee metroins May 2016 #9

Perhaps a Dream but not a fantasy inchhigh May 2016 #16

And who would that be? metroins May 2016 #22

This is what just terrifies me about her inchhigh May 2016 #48

Have you ever been in California or Oregon? JDPriestly May 2016 #228

to see him back in the Senate as a registered Democrat DrDan May 2016 #4

Any bets on how long it will take BS to return to being an "Independent"? n/t SFnomad May 2016 #67

Unless he goes and change it drray23 May 2016 #202

I just love it when LWolf May 2016 #6

Even more humorous Fairgo May 2016 #108

Or, on the other hand, LWolf May 2016 #122

The end game is Hillary losing regardless of who wins Renew Deal May 2016 #7

Our end game is your not talking about us as 'other' --"Do you guys..." HereSince1628 May 2016 #8

Do you think most Sanders supporters were previously Democrats? The ones I know IRL eastwestdem May 2016 #65

I know some life long Democrats who supported Bernie griffi94 May 2016 #82

Makes sense...idealism can sometimes be its own worst enemy. eastwestdem May 2016 #85

Exactly right griffi94 May 2016 #88

Like parable of workers in the vineyard, it doesn't matter when they came, but that they came HereSince1628 May 2016 #91

Registered Democrat since 1981 Amaril May 2016 #107

The primary is STILL ON! And until it is done at the Convention your OP will just be bkkyosemite May 2016 #10

There. are. not. enough. votes. left. for Bernie. to win. even. if. he. wins. 100% of. the. votes. LaydeeBug May 2016 #173

Using a period after each word does not make your statement true Art_from_Ark May 2016 #221

I am so sorry but it's not over yet and I know it's killing you...take a coffee break bkkyosemite May 2016 #237

I know you're having a hard time dealing with facts and math and I *promise* LaydeeBug May 2016 #238

Don't need a reality check. Plenty of proof a rigged primary! bkkyosemite May 2016 #239

Of *course*. When *she* wins, it's rigged, and when *he* wins, LaydeeBug May 2016 #240

Big difference between the two wins...haven't you been watching? Gotcha bkkyosemite May 2016 #244

I've been watching, have you? She is winning. He isn't hitting his goals LaydeeBug May 2016 #245

Crooked math is crooked math. bkkyosemite May 2016 #246

continuing to win primaries does not damage his influence. virtualobserver May 2016 #11

What is this end game you speak of? hootinholler May 2016 #12

Agreed - this is a movement womanofthehills May 2016 #26

I don't know why you guys aren't electing the guy bringing it, but the mass crowds LaydeeBug May 2016 #113

Maybe it is the voter polls that change from Democrat to Independent, or even inactive? -none May 2016 #120

Of *course*. "When he wins, it's a revolution. When she wins, it's *rigged*" LaydeeBug May 2016 #135

Didn't I already address this? -none May 2016 #137

Didn't I address basic math? LaydeeBug May 2016 #142

The superdelagates beltanefauve May 2016 #177

By staying in until the last state had voted Eric J in MN May 2016 #13

I think he already has enough influence drray23 May 2016 #203

Well, he's not going to get out right before another winning streak. Fawke Em May 2016 #224

I'd explain how i see it....but not gonna bother talking to a wall Armstead May 2016 #14

To send a clear message that we won't reward lying, cheating, and anti-democratic behavior from a GoneFishin May 2016 #15

I don't care for you speaking of Democrats as the other, 'you guys' and all. Who are you to do that? Bluenorthwest May 2016 #17

Highest relevance of the values held by Bernie Sanders and liberal Democrats. PufPuf23 May 2016 #18

Pssssst, hey, don't tell everyone, it's a secret RobertEarl May 2016 #20

+1 SheenaR May 2016 #253

I don't know, what are you going to when Hillary's recommended for indictment? pinebox May 2016 #21

Until all the DINOs go back to being Repubs. Waiting For Everyman May 2016 #23

Hopefully some of the party leadership will take notice that 40-45% of their party... TCJ70 May 2016 #24

I'd like to think so, but more likely the conclusion they'll reach from this is: Arugula Latte May 2016 #68

Of *course*, because when Bernie wins, it's "a revoltuion" and when Hillary wins, "it's rigged" LaydeeBug May 2016 #92

meaning the majority of people voted for her how bout the "us" stop ignoring reality uponit7771 May 2016 #101

Good luck in the fall... TCJ70 May 2016 #116

only if you think its better to right off 55%... put me on ignore, facts are facts ignore wont uponit7771 May 2016 #118

The endgame? I dunno. Shadowflash May 2016 #25

keeping the issues alive oldandhappy May 2016 #27

End game: Long term movement TDale313 May 2016 #28

No, they absolutely do not get that this is not all about Bernie. Says a lot about intellect and djean111 May 2016 #37

THIS primary is indeed about Bernie. You see, he's losing, LaydeeBug May 2016 #139

It'll end shortly after the last primary. JoePhilly May 2016 #30

Win or lose, we will not be going away -none May 2016 #124

It's great that you plan to efffect change, but he has LOST the primary LaydeeBug May 2016 #149

The Primary is not over. -none May 2016 #151

Yes it is. Math is math. nt LaydeeBug May 2016 #190

How can it be over when the convention hasn't happened yet? -none May 2016 #194

Nope beltanefauve May 2016 #178

Yep. LaydeeBug May 2016 #191

Either he wins like a disney movie OR his people won't vote. mehneh May 2016 #32

You just won an ignore - who are you to lecture anyone? Feh. djean111 May 2016 #34

I am honored. I really mean that. LaydeeBug May 2016 #38

Rubbing our noses in it, eh? Maedhros May 2016 #60

I am not rubbing your nose in anything at all. LaydeeBug May 2016 #143

Ahhh... another Loyalty Oath Pledge thread. 99Forever May 2016 #35

Amen! BillZBubb May 2016 #78

Ahhh...another attempt at censorship... LaydeeBug May 2016 #171

You don't really have a fucking clue what censorship is. 99Forever May 2016 #186

And yet I know BASIC FUCKING MATH, and so do you. Pity. LaydeeBug May 2016 #189

Apparently you don't know BASIC FUCKING MATH... 99Forever May 2016 #199

Coronation? No. The primary that she *won* by getting more votes and more delegates. nt LaydeeBug May 2016 #206

Nobody has won. 99Forever May 2016 #210

Math is math. LaydeeBug May 2016 #211

I'm. not fucking "getting. over" anything... 99Forever May 2016 #212

Oh, you *will* get the fuck over it, because math is math LaydeeBug May 2016 #213

Go Laydee!! Perfectly well said and every word of it true Number23 May 2016 #219

Delegates can and do switch. Fawke Em May 2016 #225

suuuuuuuuuuure they will....hundreds of them. LaydeeBug May 2016 #233

Do you people understand there are 40 million people in California who haven't voted. onecaliberal May 2016 #36

Do you people realize basic delegate math? LaydeeBug May 2016 #39

Thanks for proving my point. onecaliberal May 2016 #41

I have basic math skills...a good foundation in rudimentary reasoning LaydeeBug May 2016 #94

Post removed Post removed May 2016 #106

and yet STILL she has more votes than your guy. LaydeeBug May 2016 #111

For some, it will be holding their breath until they turn blue, MineralMan May 2016 #40

Nice to see you coming right out and saying how you really feel. Punkingal May 2016 #52

Always happy to oblige. MineralMan May 2016 #53

The fight against government corruption isn't about Bernie and will go on. Tierra_y_Libertad May 2016 #42

There is no "end game". IF Sanders doesn't win this primary a lot of people will drop away mikehiggins May 2016 #47

The game doesn't end. It continues in 2017. JackRiddler May 2016 #49

The end comes when Hillary getting the nomination on the first ballot and sanders beachbumbob May 2016 #51

Until the primary is over. redwitch May 2016 #54

For ever. H2O Man May 2016 #56

I'm not a Bernie supporter when it comes to the Presidency, but... YoungDemCA May 2016 #57

The end is like any previous campaign in history, not when the third way gang decides.... dmosh42 May 2016 #58

I'm supporting the ideals behind Bernie's campaign, not just the man himself. Maedhros May 2016 #59

I'm supporting Bernie all the way until he wins or concedes the primary whatchamacallit May 2016 #62

An underlying mistake is the belief that this is about Sanders. mikehiggins May 2016 #63

+1 LWolf May 2016 #232

At this point I would like to send a warning message to the DNC that Arugula Latte May 2016 #66

Simple... Powdered Toast Man May 2016 #74

What does the Democratic Party and its presidential candidate do to prove they are Democrats? highprincipleswork May 2016 #76

The end game is the nomination. Blue_In_AK May 2016 #79

Hillary continued her primary battles in 2008 well after a win by her was mathematically impossible. merrily May 2016 #80

Speaking of Nader beltanefauve May 2016 #181

IOKIYAAC merrily May 2016 #183

The end game is obtaining the nomination, and voting for him in November and 2020 JonLeibowitz May 2016 #81

Spreading awareness of better options. Almost all of Sanders' policies will happen eventually icecreamfan May 2016 #83

To leave convention with the nomination. First, though, we have to concentrate on silvershadow May 2016 #84

There is no chance of Bernie leaving the Democratic convention with the nomination. None. nt LaydeeBug May 2016 #89

I would suggest you argue any points you may think you have directly to Bernie, then, through silvershadow May 2016 #90

No thank you. I can do math. nt LaydeeBug May 2016 #93

There is no math but the vote at convention. Everything else is speculation. nt silvershadow May 2016 #95

Oh, is *that* the new meme? It still doesn't change the basic math. nt LaydeeBug May 2016 #96

No, that's the historical fact, per the rules we all agreed on. nt silvershadow May 2016 #97

Awww. So then Bernie concedes? Because math is math. nt LaydeeBug May 2016 #100

Heck no. After he wins several more contests this month, he may well be ahead silvershadow May 2016 #103

Oh *I* see. It's the old, "when he wins, it's a revolution, when she wins, it's rigged" O-kay LaydeeBug May 2016 #125

No, just simple FDR/Union labor views. You buys your ticket, you takes your chances. silvershadow May 2016 #155

Simple FDR/Union labor views include NOT enabling the GOP by staying ina primary you have LOST LaydeeBug May 2016 #157

I won't be. It's up to her to earn her votes. nt silvershadow May 2016 #158

She has indeed earned her votes, and she has MORE of them than your guy LaydeeBug May 2016 #161

Ok. Well, I know how those in my family voted. ;) nt silvershadow May 2016 #162

Me too. ;) nt LaydeeBug May 2016 #164

You may win the battle, but you will lose what little labor support there is, I fear. silvershadow May 2016 #165

She has won the battle, and we have to focus on the war...*you* can fear labor support LaydeeBug May 2016 #166

I fear the TPP- the furtherance of The Corporate State. It is about so much more than silvershadow May 2016 #167

I am sorry you fear so much. I still choose to be brave... LaydeeBug May 2016 #169

Another one makes its' way to my ignore list nt silvershadow May 2016 #170

I fell honored. LaydeeBug May 2016 #172

I like your attitude about volunteering. After all, there are still people who haven't voted. moriah May 2016 #110

THERE IS NO END GAME. We are Progressives, & will never quit fighting the bullshit in the Democratic highprincipleswork May 2016 #104

MY endgame DonCoquixote May 2016 #105

Another loyalty oath post? That Guy 888 May 2016 #109

Have not heard yet of the "geen Party". Something new? 7wo7rees May 2016 #112

To win Laughing Mirror May 2016 #114

Spare us Amaril May 2016 #115

Please wait until the nominee is selected in reality... DeGreg May 2016 #117

Bernie is only following the example of one of the 2008's candidates. Care to guess which one? A Simple Game May 2016 #119

It will continue until all fake Democrat neoliberal scum are driven out of the Democratic party, Zorra May 2016 #121

Just asking this question... SHRED May 2016 #123

There was no question. LaydeeBug May 2016 #128

You make the error of assuming it's about Bernie, a person. It's not. Bernie is the beginning n/t arcane1 May 2016 #126

This democratic primary is between Hillary and Bernie...if this a movement, LaydeeBug May 2016 #129

Look guys... lmbradford May 2016 #133

No, it's not about Bernie's contributions. It's about the GENERAL ELECTION LaydeeBug May 2016 #136

I'd like to have someone who isnt an East Coast drug warrior weigh in on any cannabis plank. Warren DeMontague May 2016 #134

Here you go: pat_k May 2016 #140

I don't know what was Obamas end game? You know, most of the Bernie supporters supported LiberalArkie May 2016 #141

Obama was winning in delegates. Bernie is not. Hillary had the popular vote then LaydeeBug May 2016 #146

It's not a game. bjo59 May 2016 #144

Feel the math.... smiley May 2016 #145

She should drop out now so the party can unite! B Calm May 2016 #147

Math is math. nt LaydeeBug May 2016 #148

Bernie is still in the race and I fully support him. Last time I checked Hillary still B Calm May 2016 #150

There is no "end game" this is not a game. It is movement and we will continue to organize push for Vincardog May 2016 #154

Thank you!! jillan May 2016 #159

No Thank you we need your help. Vincardog May 2016 #218

Obama did not point out basic math. He said we all know the math. morningfog May 2016 #160

He did, as he referred to Bernie Sander's camp in the past tense... LaydeeBug May 2016 #163

That quote and what you attribute to Obama in the op are morningfog May 2016 #175

^ This lovemydog May 2016 #182

I prefer to let Bernie speak for himself to answer that question: wundermaus May 2016 #176

They would be a wonderful addition as a long term wing of the party The Second Stone May 2016 #179

To promote progressive ideas marlakay May 2016 #184

I want him back in the Senate asap bigtree May 2016 #185

Write-in when the time comes, and only voting for down-ticket dems with low connection to Clinton. VulgarPoet May 2016 #192

This is neither the "end" nor a "game" Vote2016 May 2016 #196

Facitious... HumanityExperiment May 2016 #198

You are not the least bit curious. This is just another OP telling Bernie supporters to shut up! Silver_Witch May 2016 #201

Not at all...but he is NOT going to win...there aren't enough delegates left LaydeeBug May 2016 #215

My end game is none of your business. If you cared I would engage you in conversation. Silver_Witch May 2016 #220

They'll probably "disappear" for four years ... NurseJackie May 2016 #205

The end game is to let the process run its course bigwillq May 2016 #214

A democratic Administration, Congress and government... Orsino May 2016 #217

How would ANYBODY know what the popular vote was at this point unless they didn't want to? MrMickeysMom May 2016 #222

i'm in California. My plan is to vote for Bernie Sanders (as is my right) and do JDPriestly May 2016 #226

End game? Hear's my thoughts. The movement will carry on regardless. KPN May 2016 #229

We will continue this fight as long as people wrongly blame Nader for Gore's loss... lame54 May 2016 #230

No one blames Nader for what was STOLEN from Gore... LaydeeBug May 2016 #242

The end game is obvious. Have Bernie bury Trump in the general election. imagine2015 May 2016 #241

Re: deepestblue May 2016 #247

Off-topic, but that is a really nice picture of the whitehouse hueymahl May 2016 #255

Here's the link to the white house image you requested, hueymahl deepestblue May 2016 #266

For me personally, it's hoping the spirit redStateBlueHeart May 2016 #250

To cast my vote for Bernie on June 7 in NM pandora nm May 2016 #251