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Meldread

(4,213 posts)
87. Understand what you are saying...
Mon May 9, 2016, 03:40 PM
May 2016

...you are literally saying that a sizable chunk of Bernie supporters are going to switch over to Trump. You are saying they are as gullible and as stupid as his current supporters who believe that he is going to not only build a wall along the Mexican border, but make Mexico pay for it.

I do not believe that Bernie supporters are that stupid or gullible. If Donald Trump attempts to embrace economic populism as Bernie has, I believe the overwhelming and vast majority of his supporters will see right through it.

Besides, Hillary is almost as unmoored politically as him, and if she believed that Trump was going to beat her because she wasn't economically populist enough, she would become more economically populist. Just like she did against Bernie in the primaries, and just like Bernie Sander's supporters saw through that bullshit during the primaries, they will see through that bullshit by her and Trump in the general election.

As for Bernie winning independents, well he didn't do it here in Virginia. This was a primary state where anyone could vote in any primary they wanted, regardless of party registration. All you do is show up, tell them what primary you want to vote in, and you can vote in it. He lost Virginia by 29% with 64.3% going to Hillary and 35.2% going to Sanders.

The simple truth is that Bernie Sanders has been unable to deliver on his promised revolution. He was unable to unite core constituencies of the Democratic Party coalition behind him, and he wasn't able to bring in a flood of new voters into the process. In fact, in the overwhelming majority of primaries voting is down from what it was in 2008 when Obama was on the ticket.

I don't think this is a rejection of Bernie Sander's agenda, but rather his failures as a politician and a candidate. I agree with you that a majority of people in the party actually support his agenda, as well as a good number of people outside of the party. However, supporting a particular item on an agenda is not enough if that is not what motivates people to come out and vote. Most people are only motivated to vote by one or two issues for them.

For example, my mother is not a liberal or a leftist. She has voted for both Democrats and Republicans in the past. She is one of those 'mythical independents' that everyone loves to talk about. By and large, she is politically illiterate and hates politics in general. However, one thing that really motivates her to support or hate a candidate is their stance on women's rights--particularly abortion. That is one issue that will fuel political passion in my mother like nothing else. So, what do I do to ensure that she votes for the Democratic candidate every time? I show her the stance the Republican in the race has on women's issues and abortion, and the stance the Democratic candidate in the race has on women's issues and abortion. Over multiple election cycles of seeing Republicans being so anti-choice, anti-birth control, and anti-woman my mother has started to develop a hatred for the Republican party in general. This was not an accident. It happened because I knew the issue that she was passionate about, and made sure she was fully informed on that issue.

She supports many of Bernie Sander's issues on economics, by the way, but none of those issues motivate her. She doesn't even associate those issues with Bernie Sanders, primarily because the only time she pays attention to politics is near an election, and all other times she could do without. She is very much a low information voter and so are most Americans--many of whom Bernie Sanders needed to reach, pull into the party, but didn't.

My mother voted for Hillary, not because she likes Hillary (she doesn't), but because she felt that Hillary was the most qualified and because as a woman, my mother feels that Hillary will be good on women's issues. She felt that Bernie Sanders "just wants to close down all the banks" (in her words).

I personally ended up supporting Hillary for all together different reasons. Primarily, because I felt that Bernie was overselling what he could achieve as President, and that he could end up damaging the liberal movement in the long run. He didn't show a willingness to really fight against the Third Way Democrats--for example, when DWS was fucking him (as she continues to do), he didn't call for her to resign, and he didn't campaign for her primary opponent. He let her walk all over him. Bernie Sanders is a bridge builder not a bridge burner, but if the left wants to take control of the Democratic Party that is only going to happen in one of two ways: the Third Way Democrats are terrorized into submission or they are purged from the party and its leadership. I support both approaches. Bernie Sanders promised a revolution, but it was some disgusting hippie peace circle nonsense revolution where no one actually fights or gets hurt. I understand that revolutions look a lot like what is happening in the Republican party right now--a hostile take over. I understood that had Bernie Sanders become President, he would have knives in his back not only from Republicans, but from Third Way Democrats. I understood that had Bernie Sanders become President, that virtually nothing he had promised would get achieved because he has next to no true allies, and a failure to get at least part of what he promised could discourage liberals from being involved in the political process in the future. I knew that no one on the left expected anything good from Hillary, so if she failed to deliver on her promises, it wouldn't shock or surprise anyone. She was a safe placeholder. We need a Democrat to secure Obama's legacy, and the meager gains we've made on the left. Hillary will fill that role. Meanwhile, as liberals, we need to turn our attention toward local, state, and congressional elections. We need to make sure that liberals win, that Democrats in safe districts who are Third Way are purged from the party, and that a strong liberal coalition develops in the Congress. This is what the revolution actually looks like.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

And he will lose badly, just like Bernie. JaneyVee May 2016 #1
Hillary supporters show they really don't understand MATH ^^^ berni_mccoy May 2016 #2
I think they understand Bernie Math Renew Deal May 2016 #4
Trump is likely in cahoots with HIllary Baobab May 2016 #25
Bwahahahahaha Renew Deal May 2016 #30
I was laughing at the get-go, of course. Hortensis May 2016 #43
Who has millions of more votes? JaneyVee May 2016 #16
Republicans. berni_mccoy May 2016 #19
10 million votes for Trump, 15 million against Trump. Just on the Repub side. JaneyVee May 2016 #26
He's got more votes than any republican in a primary in history berni_mccoy May 2016 #45
Why do people misuse numbers all the time? LiberalFighter May 2016 #64
Hehe.... opiate69 May 2016 #105
Bernie ran against someone with all the structural and institutional cali May 2016 #6
This primary race was over months ago. JaneyVee May 2016 #17
Proportional allocation of delegates means there was never a chance of "dispatching him by February" SidDithers May 2016 #35
dispatch enid602 May 2016 #58
The more of these ops I see the better position it seems we are in. NCTraveler May 2016 #41
You are obsessed with Bernie. What's that all about? snowy owl May 2016 #111
Will Trumps embrace of Bernies platform influence your vote? Renew Deal May 2016 #3
No. LWolf May 2016 #9
I didn't know what to expect Renew Deal May 2016 #10
I had several "others." LWolf May 2016 #12
Where did you fall with Vermin Supreme? Ace Rothstein May 2016 #14
Click my link to read all my results. LWolf May 2016 #21
Vermin Supreme has no equal ... GeorgeGist May 2016 #44
No, but I do know others who it will. berni_mccoy May 2016 #18
What are you going to do to convince them that Hillary is a better choice than Trump? Renew Deal May 2016 #102
Women and minorities won't be so easily wooed but this nut job. oasis May 2016 #5
Right wing populism is fascism. joshcryer May 2016 #7
Doesn't mean it can't be successful Armstead May 2016 #33
At this point, Bernie must win about 66% of the vote in remaining primaries. kstewart33 May 2016 #8
Whether or not it is, the battle for the soul will continue long past this election Armstead May 2016 #34
I hope so. kstewart33 May 2016 #50
Not doing a sales pitch on you -- But the record should be set straight on him Armstead May 2016 #55
People don't want to know...they'd rather loyally stick to celebrity and name recognition. Stubborn. snowy owl May 2016 #113
Trump has already flip-flopped on the minimum wage. Ace Rothstein May 2016 #11
He's ALREADY started. Shadowflash May 2016 #13
He would really have to go the distance. All 100 percent. (Realign GOP.) CobaltBlue May 2016 #15
Trump's already further left than Hillary. laruemtt May 2016 #20
Well, he has been all over the political map Art_from_Ark May 2016 #114
Don't worry, right-wing Hillary will pick up some Bush voters. Broward May 2016 #22
Hillary will try to re-brand "Trickle-Down". rhett o rick May 2016 #23
So Trump is better, right? That is what you are saying, right? Jackie Wilson Said May 2016 #78
I am going to continue to fight against the control of our government by the Fat Cat Big Money rhett o rick May 2016 #88
If you dont RACE to the polls on election day and voter for WHOEVER the democratic candidate Jackie Wilson Said May 2016 #89
I would totally agree if the candidate is Sen Sanders. I don't believe that H. Clinton/Goldman-Sach rhett o rick May 2016 #91
Then you either know nothing about politics, or you know a lot and you know who you want in the Jackie Wilson Said May 2016 #92
Or I won't be manipulated by the Oligarchy that some feel so comfortable with. rhett o rick May 2016 #93
You are admitting that you will act in support of Trump with no vot. I think that admission tells me Jackie Wilson Said May 2016 #94
Are you admitting that you don't really care about the statistics I gave you and think they are rhett o rick May 2016 #95
Your non support for the Democratic Party is noted. Jackie Wilson Said May 2016 #96
As is your blind loyalty. rhett o rick May 2016 #97
LOL oh boy, the most liberal, socialist person on the board and you call me blindly loyal Jackie Wilson Said May 2016 #98
Well obviously you have one person convinced you are liberal and a socialist. rhett o rick May 2016 #99
So what this would seem to say is that Bernie's ideology is closer to Trump's? Tarc May 2016 #24
You zre advocating the will of the people be ignored. hrmjustin May 2016 #27
You are missing the point Armstead May 2016 #36
My point stands. hrmjustin May 2016 #38
That's not the point Armstead May 2016 #39
And Sanders "progressives" will flock to the racist, mysoginistic bigot... SidDithers May 2016 #28
I don't believe either of them have "gone left" trump or Clinton wendylaroux May 2016 #56
Not this Hobbit. hobbit709 May 2016 #63
I'm glad people are taking him seriously Skink May 2016 #29
Good, Hillary will win again firebrand80 May 2016 #31
Trump is a fool.. he changes his opinion like changing socks. DCBob May 2016 #32
um....no comment Armstead May 2016 #37
Haha! Shadowflash May 2016 #48
Then your irony meter must be defective. DCBob May 2016 #51
If true, this is great news. Trump is going to kill the republican brand all on his own. NCTraveler May 2016 #40
Well, he has back tracked on both WhiteTara May 2016 #42
Like Hillary? berni_mccoy May 2016 #46
Sometimes you can't tell the players Art_from_Ark May 2016 #115
Those are only Bernie's platform? Sheepshank May 2016 #47
exactly amborin May 2016 #49
If he does, it will push Hillary to the left. drm604 May 2016 #52
Ding! Exactly. Meldread May 2016 #59
Hispanic voter: Trump is a bigot who wants to deport my family... brooklynite May 2016 #53
He will imply much of it Zambero May 2016 #54
So, as a Bernie Supporter are you going to vote for Trump if he adopts Bernie's Platform? Meldread May 2016 #57
You see what you want. Officially, trump has not earned my vote berni_mccoy May 2016 #60
So, the answer is maybe? Meldread May 2016 #61
Did I say maybe? berni_mccoy May 2016 #66
Yes. Meldread May 2016 #67
Your words not mine. berni_mccoy May 2016 #69
Not my words, it's your position. I don't see you denying that I am wrong. Meldread May 2016 #70
Again, you are telling me my position... You aren't understanding mine berni_mccoy May 2016 #73
You have not said that you wouldn't support Donald Trump. You left left the door open. Meldread May 2016 #74
I don't need to make any kind of pledge to anyone, least of all the likes of you. berni_mccoy May 2016 #80
So, you've moved from a maybe to a yes for Hillary. Meldread May 2016 #83
I'm not making a threat... it's what is going to happen. berni_mccoy May 2016 #84
Understand what you are saying... Meldread May 2016 #87
Unbelievable! alcibiades_mystery May 2016 #72
Yeah, I know. Meldread May 2016 #75
+1000. nt ecstatic May 2016 #108
Still here? zappaman May 2016 #62
Why not, it's clearly a winning platform. -nt- NorthCarolina May 2016 #65
Trump can't remember from one sentence to the next what he's said... Orsino May 2016 #68
So, you're saying millennials will trust Trump but not Hillary? Onlooker May 2016 #71
The whole idea's bullshit. Turin_C3PO May 2016 #85
THEN, BY ALL MEANS, VOTE FOR TRUMP IF YOU LIKE HIS "PLATFORM" SO MUCH. Trust Buster May 2016 #76
COMPLETE nonsense! WOW Jackie Wilson Said May 2016 #77
If Ds fail to take Bernie Sanders's platform, the Rs could do it. (It would take at least 10 years.) CobaltBlue May 2016 #79
If Hillary is the candidate she will be to the right of Trump HughLefty1 May 2016 #81
Bit By Bit he will lose conservative voters krawhitham May 2016 #82
No Bernie supporter I know Turin_C3PO May 2016 #86
...after he called for a decrease in the minimum wage? Tiggeroshii May 2016 #90
So, is Trump authentic democrat or is Trump appealing to next hierarchy of voters? snowy owl May 2016 #100
Doesn't matter. He's a mentally unstable, loose canon. ecstatic May 2016 #109
I don't let others do my thinking for me. My question stands. snowy owl May 2016 #110
Thank you. H2O Man May 2016 #101
I doubt he'll support a minimum wage increase. HooptieWagon May 2016 #103
NOAP!!!! n/t UMTerp01 May 2016 #104
This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel May 2016 #106
If people are dumb enough to believe tRump moved from far right to far left ecstatic May 2016 #107
Well, you believe he moved left to right in that amount of time... snowy owl May 2016 #112
I have no idea what he believes. I don't even think he knows what he believes. ecstatic May 2016 #116
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