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2016 Postmortem

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Rilgin

(795 posts)
Sat May 21, 2016, 05:56 AM May 2016

Let's be clear. If Hillary loses the General. The responsibility is on her primary voters [View all]

There has been ample evidence that she was and is a risk in the General Election to lose to a republican. No candidate is perfect but people (like me) have been warning that Hillary is a risk for a while now ever since she became a candidate again. Polls showed that she would or could have problems against moderate republicans.

She, we and the democratic party got very lucky that the Republican establishment was not able to get their disliked front running candidate (Trump) out of the race. We did the opposite. The democratic party insiders desperately wanted our front running establishment candidate with high unfavorables to win. We could have selected someone with better favorables and with less problems if the early process had not looked so locked up so we could have had other candidates. Biden seems similar to Hillary policy wise but does not have her baggage. If it really looked like an open primary we might have got Warren to run which would have united a lot of parts of the Democratic Party. However we did not. We seem to be left with Hillary.

Trump is the only candidate in history who has had higher unfavorables and net unfavorables than Hillary. If Hillary wins she will be very lucky that Trump is her opponent. However, it is not a foregone conclusion. She tends to have her unfavorables increase the longer she is showing publically. It will be difficult for her to change that especially if some of the foundation and email stuff explodes. It is not certain that Trump can not change his unfavorables somewhat since he seems more of an actor than a politician.

Turning solely to Hillary as a candidate.

Hillary has high unfavorables, generates little excitement in the young and energizes the republican base. She is very intelligent but has a long history of being surrounded by scandal both real and purely created by the Republican hit machine. However, she also brings some of the problems on herself with equivocating, flip flopping and lying as a candidate and has hidden her relationship with corporate america. Most people who plan to run for president do not solicit donations and big money from corporations that they hope to regulate in a few years. It is a problem to have a cozy and personally lucrative business relationship with wall street in a party that is suspicious of the role of wall street in our economy.

We, on the left side of the party, are really left to hope she is a good liberal and will protect social security, not flip flop back on the TPP, really support a more robust minimum wage. Her image is problematic and hated by republicans but some of her votes are distrusted by the left side of the democratic party. She voted for the Iraq War, supported Doma, the bankruptcy bill, cluster bombs. She introduced a bill on flag burning. These worry the leftists in her own party which is not a great place for a candidate who needs all people in her party to support her. Her relative inauthenticity and the war vote are two of the the reasons she lost in 2008 to a relative newbie to politics although one with great political gifts and has lost 45% of the primary to an older leftist senator.

All the people who advocated for her and voted for her in the primary bear the responsibility if she loses. If she loses do not try to shift responsibility to people who do not later vote for her. She is a candidate that against our advice you supported as our standard bearer. Hopefully she can win against trump. She would have a hard time if the Republicans could have nominated a better candidate but we got lucky. However if she loses you take responsibility for voting for her. Do not blame the people who thought she was a bad candidate and wanted someone else who polls say is a better candidate against the republicans.

You can start by taking responsibility now rather than setting it up so you will blame Bernie people, young people, leftists, people not voting You have told us that she is a candidate who can win. If she does not its on YOU.

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Okey Doke... BooScout May 2016 #1
Should we not support a candidate on the idea that they might lose? barrow-wight May 2016 #2
it looks like Bernie's campaign is winding down underthematrix May 2016 #3
More "throwing chairs" utter bullshit from a Hillary supporter. djean111 May 2016 #11
I don't think I said that. I said Bernie's campaign is winding down underthematrix May 2016 #64
The article you linked to was utter drivel about how Bernie did not take responsibility for or djean111 May 2016 #65
I thought the article indicated Bernie had some of the underthematrix May 2016 #66
This is really very simple. Skinner May 2016 #4
It is also the case that if you put up a bad candidate its your fault. (NT) Rilgin May 2016 #7
So when the repubs defeat progressive legislation onenote May 2016 #13
Pretty simple. If you have a choice of two different paths. Be responsible for the path you want. Rilgin May 2016 #16
You don't get to define the paths, Sherlock. randome May 2016 #40
Its not "my" way. onenote May 2016 #44
I have not said a word advocating voting for trump or not voting. I hope Hillary wins. Rilgin May 2016 #51
Not as fractured? Some history: onenote May 2016 #56
I lived and voted then. Rilgin May 2016 #57
So did I. There were differences then, too. onenote May 2016 #58
The problem here is that we won't know how any candidate performs in the general election... Skinner May 2016 #17
You are right. Rilgin May 2016 #20
Nobody needs to admit they were wrong. Skinner May 2016 #26
After responding to a few people I realize something really about why I wanted to say this Rilgin May 2016 #31
Obviously the candidates we select matter. Skinner May 2016 #38
I think the lesson from recent mid term losses is different than what you took Rilgin May 2016 #45
For me it's saying neither of the two meet my minimum threshold of acceptability BernieforPres2016 May 2016 #22
Do you have a preference between Hillary or Trump? Skinner May 2016 #33
Publicly inciting violence against minorities is despicable. IdaBriggs May 2016 #35
Two entire paragraphs without an answer to what was a very simple question. randome May 2016 #42
Apologies if I wasn't clear: I pick NEITHER. I reject the premise IdaBriggs May 2016 #49
I could never vote for either but think Hillary would probably be worse BernieforPres2016 May 2016 #39
So you prefer Trump to Hillary. Skinner May 2016 #43
You prefer Hillary to Bernie BernieforPres2016 May 2016 #46
Disagree. When a candidate has a DOCUMENTED history of lying, like Trump and Hillary, IdaBriggs May 2016 #34
But there are parameters that we can understand from history. If we choose to ignore them pdsimdars May 2016 #50
Good post. It is exactly what I look at. Rilgin May 2016 #53
That's the exact argument I use for Sanders. joshcryer May 2016 #68
We have to GOTV, electing Democrats at every level, staying home and not voting is Thinkingabout May 2016 #5
That requires enthusiasm ibegurpard May 2016 #61
This is where leadership arises. Thinkingabout May 2016 #62
You better hope she has leadership then, because she's piss poor at generating enthusiasm for her. JimDandy May 2016 #67
Great post, nt. Broward May 2016 #6
Someone's trying to re-invent reality, I'm afraid. Uben May 2016 #8
Looks like I hit a nerve. Shifting blame already to someone else Rilgin May 2016 #14
I didn't say I voted for Clinton Uben May 2016 #21
I am actually addressing a different issue Rilgin May 2016 #27
You want them to put up candidates that excite people Uben May 2016 #52
If nothing stuck, then her net favorables would not be at historic lows. Rilgin May 2016 #55
God forbid ... but if she does jimlup May 2016 #9
So what? djean111 May 2016 #12
Blame people who did not vote for her... apcalc May 2016 #15
Who cares what the kind of people who support Hillary Clinton say about anything? BernieforPres2016 May 2016 #23
No. Let's be truthful. If Clinton loses the GE onenote May 2016 #10
Absolutely Justice May 2016 #18
There were two different paths. You look like you will win. Take responsibility for selecting it. Rilgin May 2016 #19
No, it's on the people who foisted her on the rest of us. Jester Messiah May 2016 #32
That's the way I see it DrDan May 2016 #36
No the Democratic Establishment is responsible. Skwmom May 2016 #24
The Hillary camp isn't worried. smiley May 2016 #25
Every time we get a lousy president or a seemingly good president starts making lousy choices My Good Babushka May 2016 #28
IMHO - A Vote For HRC In The Primary Is A Vote For Trump In The General - Trump Can Easily Win cantbeserious May 2016 #29
Of course. If you deliberately pick a bad candidate Waiting For Everyman May 2016 #30
Ok thanks for letting us know. hrmjustin May 2016 #37
NO it's people voting or not voting treestar May 2016 #41
you're fucking campaigning, advocating against her here bigtree May 2016 #47
IF Hillary is the nominee she will lose in the General. She is a weak candidate. pdsimdars May 2016 #48
Bless you for trying and thank you for a well thought out OP and the good discussion it provoked. Hiraeth May 2016 #54
The Clinton campaign has been so consisently filthy that it drove away many who would have Zorra May 2016 #59
She is a fine example of The Bland leading The Bland. Tierra_y_Libertad May 2016 #60
OK? workinclasszero May 2016 #63
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