General Discussion

Hekate

(99,663 posts)

116. All I know is that my former friends were not swing voters. They were committed lefties, Autumn.

Sat Apr 8, 2023, 01:29 PM

Apr 2023

Our paths intersected over many years on anti-right wing and pro-social justice issues. There was nothing “swing” about them.

But the shit they believed and purveyed about Hillary Clinton the year she was up against Trump was pure RW propaganda and nothing would sway them. These were grown people, not kids, and me talking about the SCOTUS and Roe fell on deaf ears. One of the stupidest memes was, “She knows where the levers of power are.” Well eff me, isn’t that kind of a BFOQ* in Washington ?

So my friends voted their brainless consciences, and joined the “just enough” Stein voters that made the “just enough” difference to get Trump past the Electoral College.

And I suddenly felt old and exhausted and gut-punched and just walked away.

*BFOQ: Bona Fide Occupational Qualification

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To ANY liberal/progressive, anywhere, who refused to vote for Hillary in November, 2016 [View all] RandySF Apr 2023 OP

... lapucelle Apr 2023 #1

She's defending poor Donald Trump these days over Bragg's indictment. emulatorloo Apr 2023 #5

BJGray is MILLIONS %%%% WRONG.. Cha Apr 2023 #18

She's a MAGA. It wasn't about being right, it was about instilling doubt Maru Kitteh Apr 2023 #36

They have no Morals, either.. just Cha Apr 2023 #39

Aloha Me. Apr 2023 #181

Aloha, Me💙 Cha Apr 2023 #189

She does not care. She's raking in $$$ for poisoning the well for Democrats. emulatorloo Apr 2023 #111

A giant fuck to Brianna... Demsrule86 Apr 2023 #206

Or who did but bashed her nonstop Eliot Rosewater Apr 2023 #2

the yes vote was a yes vote DonCoquixote Apr 2023 #4

Of course DU'ers voted for the nominee. That wasn't Elliot's point. emulatorloo Apr 2023 #9

And, too many voted for Stein's LIES, Cha Apr 2023 #23

I know many that did exactly this edisdead Apr 2023 #47

The myths of "It Was Rigged" "Her Is Warmonger" "Corrupt Corporate Shill WALL STREET" did lots of betsuni Apr 2023 #64

And they still dont get it, they are still defending their bashing. Eliot Rosewater Apr 2023 #113

there is a mile of difference between bashing DonCoquixote Apr 2023 #212

What flaws did the GOP exploit? betsuni Apr 2023 #213

Gladly DonCoquixote Apr 2023 #214

That's it? Okay, thanks. She DID have lots of ideas for the economy, these were ignored. betsuni Apr 2023 #217

warren DonCoquixote Apr 2023 #218

VP pick was a religious thing, in my opinion. betsuni Apr 2023 #220

ok, we agree DonCoquixote Apr 2023 #221

! Million + Me. Apr 2023 #180

so no one should have critiqued Hillary? DonCoquixote Apr 2023 #107

Critiques fine. Outright lies, disinformation and conspiracy theories were NOT FINE. emulatorloo Apr 2023 #108

Agree Meowmee Apr 2023 #162

No, once she was the candidate and the only one who could beat Trump, all criticism should have Demsrule86 Apr 2023 #200

I vote hard D, always have. DonCoquixote Apr 2023 #215

I am laughing now because I am picturing Hillary as werewolf. Demsrule86 Apr 2023 #219

From THe Left Me. Apr 2023 #182

Those her critiqued her on social media...influence others to not vote for her so...I despise them Demsrule86 Apr 2023 #10

What certain decisions, exactly? betsuni Apr 2023 #54

And Let's Not Forget The Nevada Caucus Me. Apr 2023 #183

Ah but did it influence other votes? And more than a few of those who critiqued her didn't Demsrule86 Apr 2023 #205

This. nt BlackSkimmer Apr 2023 #68

+1 betsuni Apr 2023 #69

Or said that Planned Parenthood was the establishment... BlueCheeseAgain Apr 2023 #3

Yep. sheshe2 Apr 2023 #16

Yeah, abortion is identity politics right up until your own wife bleeds out from miscarriage... Hekate Apr 2023 #119

This message was self-deleted by its author sheshe2 Apr 2023 #17

Oh god - I remember that JustAnotherGen Apr 2023 #30

Damned straight. Just A Box Of Rain Apr 2023 #6

That is what I think too...If you didn't vote for Hillary in the General you helped elect Trump. Demsrule86 Apr 2023 #7

That is what I think too...If you didn't vote for Hillary in the General you helped elect Trump. Demsrule86 Apr 2023 #8

PRECISELY B.See Apr 2023 #53

Yep. Again mcar Apr 2023 #11

Agree Meowmee Apr 2023 #12

No it's not. She won by 3 million votes. It's on the Republicans and the electoral college. Autumn Apr 2023 #13

HRC lost MI by 13,080 votes, WI by 27,257 and PA by 68,236 RandySF Apr 2023 #20

You don't like the Constitution change it. In every election I remember there have been several Autumn Apr 2023 #48

"The people make their choice" Martin Eden Apr 2023 #74

They weren't voters on the left, they were the swing voters. Autumn Apr 2023 #85

One of many factors Martin Eden Apr 2023 #97

They certainly receive no blame. Only one group get's the blame. Autumn Apr 2023 #120

Not much to be gained by playing the blame game, but ... Martin Eden Apr 2023 #127

All I know is that my former friends were not swing voters. They were committed lefties, Autumn. Hekate Apr 2023 #116

I don't know one person on the left that didn't vote for Hillary, even if they had to hold Autumn Apr 2023 #122

How nice for you. Hekate Apr 2023 #125

Did all your "committed lefty" friends live in the three states once known as the Blue Wall? Autumn Apr 2023 #126

Post removed Post removed Apr 2023 #164

Aren't you the sweet one. Autumn Apr 2023 #167

I know. Texaswitchy Apr 2023 #159

Some of the responses ... Hekate Apr 2023 #160

That is not true. More than a few left this site and went to JPR...and I can tell after reading Demsrule86 Apr 2023 #207

... lapucelle Apr 2023 #24

Oh my. Somebody named David Wasseman blames Stein too. Autumn Apr 2023 #161

Oh dear. lapucelle Apr 2023 #163

This is America. You still believe this if you choose. However, I don't and will never forgive Demsrule86 Apr 2023 #208

That's the way it goes. Everybody has the right to vote for whom they choose. It's not a belief, its Autumn Apr 2023 #210

What's missing is.. mvd Apr 2023 #25

Those voters voted for the candidate of their choice. Yes it's stupid to vote for a third Autumn Apr 2023 #49

Kinda Cosmocat Apr 2023 #152

Likewise those who said there was no difference between Bus and Gore Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Apr 2023 #14

They were called Tweedle Dum & Cha Apr 2023 #21

But But Hillary didn't come to their own state enough and EARN their vote! NBachers Apr 2023 #15

Exactly! I can't understand anybody calling themselves a Democrat doing that... CTyankee Apr 2023 #73

That was the worst excuse. "She hasn't earned my vote." yardwork Apr 2023 #100

I live in a state of 40 million people and I never get to see a presidential candidate. That excuse Hekate Apr 2023 #118

David Sirota continued to do his best to depress the HRC vote right up until election day. lapucelle Apr 2023 #19

I remember this. sheshe2 Apr 2023 #22

Me too. And he will never ever admit he was wrong. emulatorloo Apr 2023 #26

True. sheshe2 Apr 2023 #28

I wonder JustAnotherGen Apr 2023 #31

Good question, JAG. sheshe2 Apr 2023 #34

Don't forget about James Comey Beaverhausen Apr 2023 #27

Comey dominated that race from start to finish. StevieM Apr 2023 #52

Can we just move on? Lunabell Apr 2023 #29

No JustAnotherGen Apr 2023 #32

Spin your wheels over it. But it falls on closed ears. Lunabell Apr 2023 #37

We're Not talking to them.. Too bad you Cha Apr 2023 #43

lol Lunabell Apr 2023 #45

Absolutely the RF are being Called out Cha Apr 2023 #46

It's as old as the latest woman dying from pregnancy complications iemanja Apr 2023 #59

seriously? Lunabell Apr 2023 #63

Please iemanja Apr 2023 #90

Because their goal is to destroy the country iemanja Apr 2023 #58

No, people who vote third party do not want to destroy America. intheflow Apr 2023 #83

+1 Emile Apr 2023 #84

Yet it is Al Gore who won the Nobel Peace Prize for environmental activism, not Ralph Nader lapucelle Apr 2023 #86

AFTER he lost the presidency and was free to write his book. intheflow Apr 2023 #95

You need to read the post more carefully. Any and all defense of the Russia-fronted* Green Party lapucelle Apr 2023 #96

No one said otherwise. intheflow Apr 2023 #104

So when you said "his book", it was really "his other book", not the 1992 book lapucelle Apr 2023 #106

Let's revisit how you started this subthread: intheflow Apr 2023 #115

Wait...what? Actually, no. Not everyone understands other people's posts, and that's fine. lapucelle Apr 2023 #128

Mahalo, lapucelle! No way can anyone Cha Apr 2023 #140

Nobel, not Pulitzer. Also, Gore's work for the environment was always notable. You mentioned media Hekate Apr 2023 #141

Ralph Nader Still Refuses to Admit He Elected Bush Cha Apr 2023 #149

She was the most admired woman in America before the primary iemanja Apr 2023 #89

+1 leftstreet Apr 2023 #94

Nonsense. Hillary Clinton was and is greatly admired. yardwork Apr 2023 #102

Hillary was voted most admired woman for 17 years, her approval rating nearly 70%. betsuni Apr 2023 #146

Nader was Rove's puppet LetMyPeopleVote Apr 2023 #148

Hope the third party voters enjoyed Trump. Texaswitchy Apr 2023 #157

You really believe that nonsense ExWhoDoesntCare Apr 2023 #166

Thank You, Gen! 💙 Cha Apr 2023 #42

+1 Starry Messenger Apr 2023 #169

We're paying for it NOW. RandySF Apr 2023 #33

Damn Straight. Cha Apr 2023 #41

No.. WE are Discussing this. Cha Apr 2023 #40

During the 2000 campaign, folks were sold a similar "lesser of two evils" bill of goods. lapucelle Apr 2023 #78

THIS. Thank you. Hekate Apr 2023 #142

Or denied "lesser of two evils" meant they were calling the Democratic nominee evil. betsuni Apr 2023 #145

Unfortunately, no. We are all paying the price now. yardwork Apr 2023 #101

No. Because the damage doesn't just linger in, it grows exponentially every day. Hekate Apr 2023 #124

No-we were warned LetMyPeopleVote Apr 2023 #147

Not a chance ExWhoDoesntCare Apr 2023 #165

+1 betsuni Apr 2023 #178

Also every non-voter and "I'm not into politics" dumbass. RockRaven Apr 2023 #35

"Nobody inspires me". RandySF Apr 2023 #38

It's the political equivalent of "I'm hungry" "What do you want to eat?" "I dunno" "How about-" "No" RockRaven Apr 2023 #44

Gen Z is over rated. Texaswitchy Apr 2023 #158

This is the far more relevant issue, because it's a problem today. Sky Jewels Apr 2023 #105

I stood in line for more than a half-hour, to vote for Hillary DemocraticPatriot Apr 2023 #50

And in the 2020 Michigan Democratic presidential primary, I voted for JOE BIDEN DemocraticPatriot Apr 2023 #55

It's not people like you, it's the "Bernie or Bust" crowd that (rightfully) gets a lot of shit here Silent3 Apr 2023 #62

To be clear, I'm not addressing anyone who voted Democratic in Nov. 2016 RandySF Apr 2023 #139

Special shout out to the bernie bros and jill stein voters!!! dsp3000 Apr 2023 #51

what people, randy ??? DemocraticPatriot Apr 2023 #56

If you read some of the responses to this thread iemanja Apr 2023 #92

Which one? BWdem4life Apr 2023 #57

Seven years ago. Sky Jewels Apr 2023 #60

Yep. Lunabell Apr 2023 #61

Yes the past is past. But I don't want to see a repeat in 2024. Briahana Joy Gray promotes RFK JR emulatorloo Apr 2023 #133

There have been massive, massive changes since 2016. Sky Jewels Apr 2023 #135

Agreed. A whole different ball game. But ... emulatorloo Apr 2023 #136

Christ on a Trailer Hitch, that is a ghastly photo Hekate Apr 2023 #143

Yes. Texaswitchy Apr 2023 #156

I will say this. Texaswitchy Apr 2023 #154

"The past is past let's move on" argument, no. Attacks against Hillary were all about the past, betsuni Apr 2023 #65

Yawn RandiFan1290 Apr 2023 #66

"Centrists" -- who? Trump wasn't a centrist. betsuni Apr 2023 #67

Trump voters were a mixed bag, but they don't seem to have been the dreaded "centrists". lapucelle Apr 2023 #80

Thanks for posting those numbers. emulatorloo Apr 2023 #109

some evidence to back this up: Trump was a net +6 with mixed ideology centrists, and a plus 15 net Celerity Apr 2023 #79

I blame those who said they were on our side and stabbed us in the back by electing Trump...Stein Demsrule86 Apr 2023 #209

It should have been apparent that TRUMP was a MAJOR THREAT Martin Eden Apr 2023 #70

THANK YOU Skittles Apr 2023 #71

+1 betsuni Apr 2023 #72

I was on team Bernie back then sky_masterson Apr 2023 #75

"The party sort of screwed us back then" -- what does that mean? "Rigged" conspiracy theory? betsuni Apr 2023 #76

Okay sky_masterson Apr 2023 #77

+1 intheflow Apr 2023 #88

Your totally right about how Bernie people treated Tree Lady Apr 2023 #117

It was awful. intheflow Apr 2023 #121

'Rally Size' doesn't equal Votes. Senator Sanders voters didn't show up in 2016 or 2020 emulatorloo Apr 2023 #110

Rally sizes reflect excitement. sky_masterson Apr 2023 #112

I know you wanted her to win. emulatorloo Apr 2023 #132

Post removed Post removed Apr 2023 #123

Yes he won primaries. But not enough. And journalists gave him a lot of very favorable press. emulatorloo Apr 2023 #130

No. Hillary had a nearly 70% approval rating and it wasn't until the media started with betsuni Apr 2023 #151

But the truth is sky_masterson Apr 2023 #176

Maybe "establishment" in the same way that Planned Parenthood was "establishment". lapucelle Apr 2023 #82

It was nothing about her gender to me. sky_masterson Apr 2023 #87

There were plenty of folks who say "I'd vote for a woman, just not that woman" lapucelle Apr 2023 #93

I don't know. I will support her if she is the nominee. sky_masterson Apr 2023 #98

That's why I don't believe we'll ever have a woman Bettie Apr 2023 #131

Absolutely. As soon as Kamala is our nominee, it'll be "just not that woman" all over again. Hekate Apr 2023 #144

"Establishment" might mean voting with Republicans and the NRA on guns. lapucelle Apr 2023 #99

Shhhhhhhhh ... that's a secret. betsuni Apr 2023 #168

Amen, amen, amen. (nt) Paladin Apr 2023 #81

I go back to the Nader crew in 2000 Renew Deal Apr 2023 #91

Yup ismnotwasm Apr 2023 #103

For a third time... N/T lapucelle Apr 2023 #114

Exactly ismnotwasm Apr 2023 #129

Hillary Clinton warned you about the courts, about Roe and about Trump and his racism LetMyPeopleVote Apr 2023 #134

Yes. And we were told the courts don't matter mcar Apr 2023 #150

I was screaming Supreme Court and Roe. Texaswitchy Apr 2023 #155

I voted for Bernie in the 2016 and 2020 primaries. I voted for Clinton and Biden in the liberal_mama Apr 2023 #137

There are some states like WV RandySF Apr 2023 #138

Might happen again 2024. Texaswitchy Apr 2023 #153

Easy to say now. In retrospect. Who knew he'd be Laura PourMeADrink Apr 2023 #170

Anyone with an ounce of sense who saw Trump sniffing and crazily ranting nonsense for a few seconds betsuni Apr 2023 #171

Anyone who saw his nazi campaign rallies and fascist cultist mobs Meowmee Apr 2023 #172

But Hillary got paid for a Goldman Sachs speech about being Secretary of State and fundraised betsuni Apr 2023 #173

Yes and that was pushed by so called dems and fakes as a reason not to vote hrc Meowmee Apr 2023 #174

Fantasy of a left and right wing populist alliance class revolution. Ridiculous. betsuni Apr 2023 #177

At the time it was happening Meowmee Apr 2023 #192

Guess you were saying that in 2016? I recall many Laura PourMeADrink Apr 2023 #185

His bankruptcies and love life have been splashed across the front pages of tabloids since the 80s. betsuni Apr 2023 #186

Totally disagree. But that's our party! Totally free to disagree :) Laura PourMeADrink Apr 2023 #196

Why did you think he would change? That "weathervane" thing? betsuni Apr 2023 #197

He was going to change, start acting reverent because Laura PourMeADrink Apr 2023 #198

Could Shoot A Person On 5TH Ave Me. Apr 2023 #184

Me. And not just him. They. I've always known "it" could happen Hortensis Apr 2023 #191

Getting harder and harder, what with outrageous Republican extremism, to do betsuni Apr 2023 #193

How great if THAT insidiously self-kneecapping pattern Hortensis Apr 2023 #195

I couldn't agree more Pototan Apr 2023 #175

You Are So There With This Me. Apr 2023 #179

I'd say something but my words would burn. librechik Apr 2023 #187

This message was self-deleted by its author Hassin Bin Sober Apr 2023 #188

I can't wait to see a variant of this kind of OP two weeks from now Rob H. Apr 2023 #190

ad nauseum Lunabell Apr 2023 #194

Next year and the year after. Till the end of time. Autumn Apr 2023 #199

Never forget. Just A Box Of Rain Apr 2023 #201

"I'm With Her" NotVeryImportant Apr 2023 #202

Stronger Together was her main campaign slogan. betsuni Apr 2023 #216

While we're at it, let's rehash blame for the 2000 election Chakaconcarne Apr 2023 #203

I hate the Greens to this day for 2000. I will never forgive them because Trump got judges Demsrule86 Apr 2023 #204

Heck...why stop there GenThePerservering Apr 2023 #211