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Tommy Carcetti

(44,041 posts)
Tue Jul 15, 2025, 11:50 AM Jul 15

I was on vacation while the whole Epstein thing exploded. [View all]

That being said, my assessment of the story is more or less unchanged.

First, there still is nothing that leads me to believe that there is some grand master "Epstein List" that contains names of people who conspired with Epstein for sex trafficking purposes or what not.

So as much as I hate to say it, Pam Bondi is probably technically correct in that respect.

The idea of an "Epstein List" is basically a myth perpetrated by mostly those on the right who want there to be some proof of massive amounts of Democratic politicians and left-leaning celebrities being in cohorts with Epstein and his worst offenses. There are dozens of fake "lists" floating online whose list of supposed "Epstein Island Visitors" contain entries as laughable as Seth Green, Meryl Streep, Miley Cyrus, Patton Oswalt, and Tom Hanks. Gullible right wing nut jobs ate up this bullshit like candy and propagated it as if there was the undisputed truth.

Bondi was basically placed between a rock and a hard place. Either she would have to come out and admit there was no actual "list" to speak of, or she could attempt to slap together some obviously transparent and idiotic "list" of her own that anyone with half a brain cell would be able to expose as fake. In the end, being risk adverse she chose the former and not the latter.

And the fact Bondi's very-reluctant admission shattered the far-right wing illusion of some massive list of Democrats and liberal celebrities who were conspiring with Epstein is the reason for the freakout by those on the right.

The concept of a "Epstein list" was basically a Ponzi scheme, inevitably destined to collapse. And it just did. So the right-wing is all upset.

So if there was no actual "list," what is there?

Well, there was a huge investigative file that looked into everything relating to Epstein's activities. And the thing about Epstein was that he was a huge narcissist who loved rubbing elbows with the rich, famous and powerful. So anyone he came in contact with could have found their names at various points in the file documents. This would include a lot of big names. Overwhelmingly, most of those peoples' names inclusion is 100% innocuous. There are probably a small few, however, who might not be.

So, just for example, back in the early 2000s--before Epstein's activities were known to the public--when the Clinton Foundation needed an airplane to travel to various countries and Epstein volunteered his plane, without the benefit of foresight they accepted it and that's something that could have brought in President Clinton's name to the entire file. Ultimately, it certainly is embarrassing, but not a shred of evidence of culpability in any crimes. But the right wing will insist otherwise simply because it fits their agenda. Nothing more and nothing less.

On the other hand, it appears that people like Alan Dershowitz and Prince Andrew might have a lot more involvement in Epstein's illicit activity, if the evidence turns out to be true. But even that hasn't been proven to support probable cause of a crime, let alone proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

So what to make of Donald Trump's freak out regarding the Epstein case?

Well, he certainly knew Epstein well enough to be photographed with him multiple times. And he once went on the record about how Epstein "liked them young," so an inference could be made that he at least may have had some knowledge about Epstein's sexual predilections.

Does that mean Trump was a culpable co-conspirator? I objectively cannot say and will not say. But I do think whatever mentions in the investigative files of Trump's name were certainly embarrassing enough to someone whose skin is as thin as Donald Trump to cause him to freak out. As a malignant narcissist Trump is very image sensitive, and the mere idea that he could be connected to Epstein--especially after the civil judgment in the Carroll case--would likely have caused him to freak out.

In the end, while the actions of Epstein were undoubtedly horrific and there stands a chance that at least some knew of his activities and may have even acted along with him, as a political scandal I still believe the Epstein story is fools gold, for both the left and right alike.

It will flare up every so often, as it did last week, but I don't see it as having any sort of lasting impact. People have way too short memories for that.

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Bondi: "There are tens of thousands of videos of Epstein with children or child porn and there are hundreds of victims." sop Jul 15 #1
They said it was all just porn he downloaded. johnnyfins Jul 15 #2
This 100% MacDo Jul 15 #9
In the absence of actual evidence that all makes sense. bucolic_frolic Jul 15 #3
This is a bedrock tenet of MAGA newdeal2 Jul 15 #4
K&R for sheer pithiness and depth... Hugin Jul 15 #5
Of course there is no list. But there were video cameras in EVERY ROOM of EVERY HOUSE Epstein owned. Scrivener7 Jul 15 #6
Of course. And a huge damning list can be made of it. nt miyazaki Jul 15 #12
Epstein used video footage to extort poli-junkie Jul 15 #7
That was Barr's role in the First Imposition... Hugin Jul 15 #11
A cogent analysis, I've been saying similar here AZJonnie Jul 15 #8
Don't overthink it. usonian Jul 15 #10
Their own actions over the past week created too much smoke for me to ignore Torchlight Jul 15 #13
I think she wanted to string along the MAGA base as long as she possibly could. Tommy Carcetti Jul 15 #14
All guesses are drawn from the same deck Torchlight Jul 15 #16
I think it is interesting that Pam Bondi was the AG of Florida in 2007 when Epstein was indicted... kentuck Jul 15 #15
She wasn't AG back then. Tommy Carcetti Jul 15 #18
She was the AG though from 2011-2019 - She had to be aware of this case. The victims had an ongoing lawsuit tulipsandroses Jul 15 #21
Not buying nor is the majority of people. Blue Full Moon Jul 15 #17
I can answer your first question, at least in terms of the case brought by Biden's DoJ AZJonnie Jul 15 #23
I think there is a lot more to this story. I don't think there is a list. But there are tons of documents, pictures tulipsandroses Jul 15 #19
135 Women were paid damages from Epstein's estate TBA Jul 15 #20
Well so if he was running a child prostitution ring there should be TONS of women who've testified they were passed AZJonnie Jul 15 #22
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