General Discussion

Beastly Boy

(13,283 posts)

35. Technically, we were discussing, as per your post,

Fri Aug 1, 2025, 04:26 PM

Aug 1

and I quote: "killing a group of innocent people as a tool to induce a third party to act in a desired manner" being immoral.

But even that discussion ended as soon as you made your conception of morality contingent on US military aid. According to you, and I quote: "But nobody supports Hamas, so we cannot do anything about their behavior".

Just because you can influence someone's behavior to the exclusion of all others, doesn't mean you are addressing that behavior in good faith. In fact, this approach doesn't make this behavior disappear, it delegates the said behavior exclusively to the party you claim you cannot control. Mentioning Iran, Russia amd China is not an extrapolation, it is an analogy that underscores the absurdity of your argument. It's not a "versus" thing, even if we are now switching to discussing children starving in Gaza.

Hamas is not starving. Hamas doesn't care about starving Gazans. There are only two reasons for the children being starved: Hamas holding hostages and Hamas controlling Gaza. Release the hostages, disarm Hamas, and there is no longer the need to influence Israel. End military aid to Israel, and nothing will change.

Consider these simple truths in search of your solutions.

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Oopsie Daisy

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WaPo lists the names of the 18,500 children in Gaza killed during the genocide. [View all] vanessa_ca Jul 31 OP

💔💔💔 ultralite001 Jul 31 #1

Heartbreaking pattyloutwo Jul 31 #2

Israel doesn't view them as children, rather as "human shields" worthy of death. David__77 Jul 31 #3

Did they also Greg_In_SF Jul 31 #4

Sounds like you are talking about Oct 7 womanofthehills Aug 1 #39

About time malaise Jul 31 #5

Yes, but I'll take it. Better late than never vanessa_ca Jul 31 #7

"... as released by the Gaza Health Ministry* ..." Oopsie Daisy Jul 31 #6

What does this mean?? Are you saying these children were not killed? still-prayin4rain Jul 31 #8

The group responsible for using human shields... Oopsie Daisy Jul 31 #16

I am saying, killing innocent people, children no less, to stop a third party is not OK. still-prayin4rain Jul 31 #18

I understand. And I am saying that Hamas has put innocent people in harm's way. Hamas is a legitimate target. Oopsie Daisy Jul 31 #19

Nobody supports or defends Hamas and to say that is disingenuous. The children being starved to death are not Hamas. still-prayin4rain Jul 31 #20

Blaming Israel for the deaths caused by Hamas is... curious. Oopsie Daisy Jul 31 #21

All these aid workers, experts, and literal pictures are lying?? still-prayin4rain Jul 31 #22

I think we have reached an impasse. Oopsie Daisy Jul 31 #23

Probably one of the most honest, incisive and brave posts on DU I've seen... AloeVera Jul 31 #24

I said no such thing. I said that the numbers coming out of the Hamas "health ministry" cannot be trusted. Oopsie Daisy Aug 2 #72

Nobody has called for Israel to give up. What are you talking about? Demanding they stop starving innocent people is not still-prayin4rain Aug 2 #79

That is the fault of Hamas. Oopsie Daisy Aug 2 #80

To make Israel look like the bad guys? Chautauquas Aug 1 #36

No, Israel is not committing murder. Hamas is intentionally using civilians as shields. Hamas is committing murder. Oopsie Daisy Aug 1 #38

So, the IDF kills and starves the "shields"? To what purpose? Ping Tung Aug 2 #48

No. Hamas is starving their own people. Oopsie Daisy Aug 2 #49

Blaming the victims and saying "everybody does it" is a piss poor excuse for killing people. Ping Tung Aug 2 #52

Nobody is "blaming the victim" ... I'm just telling you why it is and how it can end. Oopsie Daisy Aug 2 #54

The ICC sees it differently. As does most of the world who see both sides as criminals. Ping Tung Aug 2 #56

Some also claimed the victims of My Lai were "human shields" worthy of death. David__77 Aug 2 #70

Nor to mention all that were killed by the B-52s and artillery. Ping Tung Aug 2 #77

If Israel is only targeting Hamas then they have the Eko Aug 2 #68

War is not delicate surgery. It's not sterile. Oopsie Daisy Aug 2 #69

Wow thank you. All this time I thought Israel and hamas were using foam bullets and water ballon bombs. Eko Aug 2 #81

TLDR (Gish Gallop) Oopsie Daisy Aug 2 #82

What is Israels NCV used in Gaza compared to modern western Militaries? Eko Aug 2 #83

Not my call to make. Oopsie Daisy Aug 2 #85

Do you even know what it stands for? What does it stand for in terms of war? Eko Aug 2 #86

Tired of the insults. Bye. Oopsie Daisy Aug 2 #88

How is asking a question an insult? You are the one that assumed I didnt know squat about war without asking me. Eko Aug 2 #90

Israel has the power as well, right? Eko Aug 2 #84

No. Hamas must be destroyed. I blame Hamas. Oopsie Daisy Aug 2 #87

Israel cant stop the war? Eko Aug 2 #89

This message was self-deleted by its author Eko Aug 2 #91

Unfortunately- most know the numbers are way higher womanofthehills Aug 1 #40

And still no posts for Hamas to be held accountable for their war crimes of using human shields. Oopsie Daisy Aug 1 #42

".... they are legitimate targets" Is that how they see human beings? Ping Tung Aug 2 #50

In this case, when I say "they" I am referring to Hamas. But you knew that already. Oopsie Daisy Aug 2 #51

If that's the case and the IDF knows they are shooting at innocent human target why do it? Ping Tung Aug 2 #53

It's war. People die in wars. Hamas is making sure that innocent people die. Oopsie Daisy Aug 2 #55

I'm blaming the murderers who are pulling the triggers on either side. Ping Tung Aug 2 #57

People die in wars. Hamas makes sure innocent people die first. Oopsie Daisy Aug 2 #60

Do the soldiers doing the shooting know that they are murdering civilians? Are they robots? Ping Tung Aug 2 #62

War is war. Hamas are the murderers. Oopsie Daisy Aug 2 #63

"War is war". What a convenient euphamism for muredering people if you're on the "right" side. Ping Tung Aug 2 #64

No it's not. Hamas are murdering people. Oopsie Daisy Aug 2 #65

I'm not sideing with terrorists of any stripe. Even the ones wearing uniforms. Ping Tung Aug 2 #66

Then you understand why they must be defeated. And you understand that Hamas are the ones killing civilians Oopsie Daisy Aug 2 #67

As I said, I don't support anyone who knowingly kills cviilians and I consider them war criminals. Ping Tung Aug 2 #73

Hamas are the ones who have the power to unilaterally end this today... or tomorrow if they wanted. Oopsie Daisy Aug 2 #74

Well, at least you admit that they're innocent. Over 60.000 now. Ping Tung Aug 2 #75

Admit? Weird word to use... when have I ever "denied" that they were innocent? (Answer: never.) Oopsie Daisy Aug 2 #76

Bye. Keep telling yourself that the people shooting the bullets have no responsibility for the bodies. Ping Tung Aug 2 #78

To be fair, Hamas is their elected government. I am sure they are doing all they can for their constituents. nt LexVegas Jul 31 #11

In 2006 - half of Gaza's population were not born yet or kids too young to vote womanofthehills Aug 1 #41

60000 war crunes aided and abetted by America the Beautiful. Ping Tung Jul 31 #9

60,000 war crimes. And more! vanessa_ca Jul 31 #12

The kind that will say "We didn't know" when called for an explanation. Ping Tung Jul 31 #13

Yes. And pretty soon everyone will pretend they were always against this -eom vanessa_ca Jul 31 #15

All due to the refusal of Hamas to surrender. tritsofme Jul 31 #10

I am sure that senior Hamas members and their children are doing quite well. nt LexVegas Jul 31 #14

Killing a group of innocent people as a tool to induce a third party to act in a desired manner is immoral. still-prayin4rain Jul 31 #17

Using a group of innocent people as human shields to induce a third party to act in a desired manner is a war crime. Beastly Boy Aug 1 #27

International law also prohibits starving as a method of warfare. EVERYONE agrees Hamas is bad. Repeatedly stating that still-prayin4rain Aug 1 #28

You are implying that all we can do about Hamas comes down to state Beastly Boy Aug 1 #29

Well, if we did anything to support Hamas, I would answer your question by talking about how we would use that support still-prayin4rain Aug 1 #30

Not a single post calling Hamas accountable? Well, you know what this means. Beastly Boy Aug 1 #33

Your response is so far off base of the issue that is being discussed, it's nonsensical. still-prayin4rain Aug 1 #34

Technically, we were discussing, as per your post, Beastly Boy Aug 1 #35

Again, you're taking things out of context. still-prayin4rain Aug 1 #37

In the context of the current starvation crisis, Beastly Boy Aug 1 #43

Ah, finally, a mostly on topic response - thank you still-prayin4rain Aug 1 #45

That was what I had been responding with from the start. Beastly Boy Aug 2 #46

Respectfully, I'm not sure you're fully in touch with reality. The atrocities of Hamas are universally acknowledged. still-prayin4rain Aug 2 #47

It would be far easier to self-righteously proclaim certain biases if I were not on this board to challenge them, right? Beastly Boy Aug 2 #58

Surrender means - stripped naked, blindfolded, starved and tortured womanofthehills Aug 2 #59

Add rape and you have what Hamas did to 10/7 victims RandomNumbers Aug 2 #71

"We commit genocide because you started it." Iggo Aug 2 #61

It was their misfortune to be labelled "human shields". AloeVera Aug 1 #25

International laws state it is not permissible to use human shields. International laws state that using human shields Beastly Boy Aug 1 #26

OMG this is terrible mike_c Aug 1 #31

Name their killer - Benjamin Netanyahu! Initech Aug 1 #32

Yeah, but the other guy started it. Iggo Aug 1 #44

I am stunned and sickened MorbidButterflyTat Aug 3 #92

I can only imagine the comments - I can no longer stomach them. AloeVera Aug 3 #93