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In reply to the discussion: When does the Stock Market Crash? [View all]pat_k
(12,190 posts)28. Don't know when, but Prof G sets out how the end will begin:
No Mercy No Malice @profgalloway
How Does the End Begin
https://www.profgalloway.com/how-does-the-end-begin/
The article is a must read for details, but he also discussed this in Oct 15th's Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway & Jessica Tarlov (wherever you get your podcasts). An excerpt from that:
Essentially, America is a giant bet on AI right now. And I continue to believe that the most dangerous metric ever invented was the NASDAQ and the Dow and the S&P indexes. Because the S&P being up 14%, I believe, has provided cloud cover for Trumps actions. And that is, America has become so much about stuff, specifically, your ability to acquire stuff versus character versus family versus patriotism. That as long as the markets continue to go up and people are under the impression that they are going to have more money, and can access cheap calories and access Netflix -- that if the market is up 14%, that must mean the president on the whole is doing something right.
And essentially, the reason the market is up 14% is that 75% plus of the market's gains come from 10 companies led by NVIDIA. And now Jensen is implementing a series of circular, kind of incestuous deals that feel very like a late stage 99 to me. If the market has been down 14%, I believe that Trump wouldn't have the cloud cover to go into Portland...(more on attempts to bury Epstein as a driver of events)
Jensen Huang (NVIDIA), Sam Altman (OpenAI), Satya Nadella (Microsoft), and the continued march of the magnificent 10 is the cloud cover for the administration.
...
And what we have now is an economy that is looking increasingly fragile because you have 10 companies representing 40% of S&P by value. The S&P represents 50% of the total market value capitalization. I'm writing about it this week for my No Mercey, No Malice newsletter.
And I think this is how the end begins. And that is all these circular deals.
So, NVIDIA invests 100 billion in Open AI with the agreement they're going to take that 100 billion and invest it back in NVIDIA chips. 100 billion in incremental business to NVIDIA creates 55 billion in operating margin -- they have 55 points of operating margin, or 55 billion in earnings times a PE of 50. That's like a 1.4 trillion technical increase in notional valuation off of a hundred billion dollar investment.
AOL was pulling this sleight-of-hand back in the late 90s, investing in ecommerce companies in exchange for them spending all that money on AOL, such that they could continue to report growth that justified what was an exceptional artificially inflated valuation. This is late-stage 99 circular deals.
There's an amazing graph put together by Bloomberg showing that these deals have now become very popular.
So, what happens here, the string or the rope that gets pulled is there's more research; there are more reports from big companies saying the adoption layer, if you will, is not taking off the way we thought. That is, companies that have signed up for AI made huge investments, but they're not seeing the ROI they had expected. So, if they announce a pullback in spending, NVIDIA gets cut in half -- and effectively, if you have the magnificent 10 cut in half. The magnificent 10 could get cut in half -- they still wouldn't look cheap, but that would be a 20% decline in the value of the S&P, and a 10% decline in the total market cap of all stocks globally. And that would disproportionally -- I don't want to say hurt, because they are pretty resilient -- but it would disproportionally affect the top 10% who are now responsible for 50% of consumer spending. Which again, see above, makes a fragile or anti-resilient economy.
And the thing about rich people is that when they make money, it's great because they can spend a lot more because of the effect of the stock market. But the downside is that wealthy people can take their spending down 20%, 30%, 40%. Middle class homes can't take their spending down that much because they are spending money on essentials.
But if the wealthy all feel less wealthy because they wake up and the market is down 20% and some of the tech is down 40%, they can take their spending down 30 or 40%, which would immediately take us into a recession, or a global recession.
And essentially, the reason the market is up 14% is that 75% plus of the market's gains come from 10 companies led by NVIDIA. And now Jensen is implementing a series of circular, kind of incestuous deals that feel very like a late stage 99 to me. If the market has been down 14%, I believe that Trump wouldn't have the cloud cover to go into Portland...(more on attempts to bury Epstein as a driver of events)
Jensen Huang (NVIDIA), Sam Altman (OpenAI), Satya Nadella (Microsoft), and the continued march of the magnificent 10 is the cloud cover for the administration.
...
And what we have now is an economy that is looking increasingly fragile because you have 10 companies representing 40% of S&P by value. The S&P represents 50% of the total market value capitalization. I'm writing about it this week for my No Mercey, No Malice newsletter.
And I think this is how the end begins. And that is all these circular deals.
So, NVIDIA invests 100 billion in Open AI with the agreement they're going to take that 100 billion and invest it back in NVIDIA chips. 100 billion in incremental business to NVIDIA creates 55 billion in operating margin -- they have 55 points of operating margin, or 55 billion in earnings times a PE of 50. That's like a 1.4 trillion technical increase in notional valuation off of a hundred billion dollar investment.
AOL was pulling this sleight-of-hand back in the late 90s, investing in ecommerce companies in exchange for them spending all that money on AOL, such that they could continue to report growth that justified what was an exceptional artificially inflated valuation. This is late-stage 99 circular deals.
There's an amazing graph put together by Bloomberg showing that these deals have now become very popular.
So, what happens here, the string or the rope that gets pulled is there's more research; there are more reports from big companies saying the adoption layer, if you will, is not taking off the way we thought. That is, companies that have signed up for AI made huge investments, but they're not seeing the ROI they had expected. So, if they announce a pullback in spending, NVIDIA gets cut in half -- and effectively, if you have the magnificent 10 cut in half. The magnificent 10 could get cut in half -- they still wouldn't look cheap, but that would be a 20% decline in the value of the S&P, and a 10% decline in the total market cap of all stocks globally. And that would disproportionally -- I don't want to say hurt, because they are pretty resilient -- but it would disproportionally affect the top 10% who are now responsible for 50% of consumer spending. Which again, see above, makes a fragile or anti-resilient economy.
And the thing about rich people is that when they make money, it's great because they can spend a lot more because of the effect of the stock market. But the downside is that wealthy people can take their spending down 20%, 30%, 40%. Middle class homes can't take their spending down that much because they are spending money on essentials.
But if the wealthy all feel less wealthy because they wake up and the market is down 20% and some of the tech is down 40%, they can take their spending down 30 or 40%, which would immediately take us into a recession, or a global recession.
So, basically, one thing that is a pretty sure bet is that 5 Trillion dollar valuation NVIDIA just reached is the result of circular deals that have massively, and artificially, inflated the value.
https://www.profgalloway.com/how-does-the-end-begin/
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People here have been predicting for months and months that it will happen any day
MichMan
19 hrs ago
#2
When financial underpinnings of the Trump economy are worse than AI growth prospects
bucolic_frolic
19 hrs ago
#4
Yep. As Prof G describes, America is essentially an all in bet on AI, with circular deals artificially inflating values
pat_k
13 hrs ago
#32
Yes, it's a bubble. Money chasing money, and the "best outcome" I can see for AI is in specialized verticals, where it's
usonian
13 hrs ago
#33
AI companies are reporting huge profits. It's a bubble but kinda different from 1999.
Quixote1818
13 hrs ago
#35