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crimycarny

(1,971 posts)

13. I think women candidates in general have to straddle a crazy "dammed if you do, dammed if you don't"

Tue Nov 4, 2025, 09:28 PM

Nov 4

If a woman comes off as strong, as Hillary did against Trump, they are seen by some as a b-word. If a woman comes across as more likable, it is perceived as a weakness. It's a ridiculous double-standard.

I remember when Hillary was running against Obama, I didn't like her. It was stupid of me, as I never really bothered to stop and do research. It was more like, "Well, she rubs me wrong, so her policies must be awful." Stupid of me.

It wasn't until I saw her in the first debate with Obama that my eyes were opened up to how incredibly smart she was. I still wanted Obama to win, but I gained a new respect for Hillary and, over time, I grew to admire her. I learned a lesson from that which I've never forgotten.

As for Kamala, I think she ran into the same predicament of trying to find the right balance. She simply didn't have enough time to find her stride.

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Can anyone explain what made Hillary/Kamala so unlikeable? [View all] EnergizedLib Nov 4 OP

Boobies Happy Hoosier Nov 4 #1

We do. Always have. Hope that changes. They were both right. Srkdqltr Nov 4 #59

Gina. sheshe2 Nov 5 #78

People thought Clinton looked down on them Henry203 Nov 4 #2

yep... a black woman was NEVER gonna win the presidency democratsruletheday Nov 4 #10

Sexism... ZDU Nov 4 #3

They were unlikable because they didn't have a penis. nt Wednesdays Nov 4 #4

I had doubts bucolic_frolic Nov 4 #5

I didn't like Hillary but I still voted for her. ananda Nov 4 #6

Hatred of women because of religion Blue Full Moon Nov 4 #7

Misogyny Bettie Nov 4 #8

So why was it that 55% of white women voted for Trump? UniqueUserName Nov 5 #87

By Whom? Millions of People Liked Them. Cha Nov 4 #9

Both Clinton and Harris won VA. 58Sunliner Nov 4 #11

Small, stupid people with small, stupid minds. (nt) Paladin Nov 4 #12

I think women candidates in general have to straddle a crazy "dammed if you do, dammed if you don't" crimycarny Nov 4 #13

Fox News Initech Nov 4 #14

People feeding into the bullshit that they were unlikable. Like this OP. nt LexVegas Nov 4 #15

If they were likeable EnergizedLib Nov 4 #18

Why was Bernie so unlikable that he couldnt get out of the primary? nt LexVegas Nov 4 #21

I remember superdelegates and the DNC clearly preferring Hillary EnergizedLib Nov 4 #24

She got more votes than Bernie. Sparkly Nov 4 #64

That part hierarchy wasnt going to let Bernie get any traction. CentralMass Nov 5 #77

Likability isn't Bernie's problem at all. Never has been. thought crime Nov 5 #80

Here's a likability test: when a man laughs, what do you hear? A chuckle, a hearty guffaw? Hekate Nov 4 #45

Exactly. The same people that claimed HRC was too shrill, didn't show enough emotions, then said Kamala laughed too much tulipsandroses Nov 4 #56

Bingo Cosmocat Nov 4 #51

Too many Americans think that the presidency is the top of macho mountain. No girls allowed. Walleye Nov 4 #16

Some didn't like Kamala's laugh. For me, it's her voice. But I damn sure got out and voted for her!!! hamsterjill Nov 4 #17

She didn't just lose white males. She lost black males and Hispanics as well.... Melon Nov 4 #48

All of that seems crazy to me. Sparkly Nov 4 #66

I disagree. Your assumption is that people vote against something Melon Nov 5 #82

I think it's VAGINA Maru Kitteh Nov 4 #19

Or, in other words, lack of PENIS. GoCubsGo Nov 5 #90

Fascinating that no one's getting to this Terry_M Nov 4 #20

I can't say I'm overly enthralled with establishment, business as usual politics and politicians EnergizedLib Nov 4 #22

The next election is not about what you want. It's not about what I want Terry_M Nov 4 #23

And yet, trump not being establishment EnergizedLib Nov 4 #26

I will hold my nose and vote for Cory Booker and be unhappy over it Terry_M Nov 4 #28

Too smart for a lot of people. milestogo Nov 4 #25

smart women threaten dumb men DBoon Nov 4 #65

I like both of them. orangecrush Nov 4 #27

NOTHING. it's B.S! elleng Nov 4 #29

Thank you. Enough already. yorkster Nov 4 #54

What wasn't between their legs Freddie Nov 4 #30

Hillary was so unlikable she won the popular vote. tinrobot Nov 4 #31

Just not enough to knock off the biggest farce ever perpetrated on our country, right? EnergizedLib Nov 4 #35

It's because of the oldest gerrymander in the country tinrobot Nov 5 #96

I voted for both of them, they were both likable. Neither were my first choice and gender had Autumn Nov 4 #32

I think it's a lot of reasons rather than one big reason EdmondDantes_ Nov 4 #33

I gotta say... dpibel Nov 4 #68

I think you kinda answered your own question GusBob Nov 4 #34

Their chromosomes misanthrope Nov 4 #36

They were both intelligent women and the Right were at the peak of a misogynist movement. Baitball Blogger Nov 4 #37

Hate to break it to you, but they both lacked the sine qua non of American presidential qualifications: a penis Hekate Nov 4 #38

not a goddamn thing bigtree Nov 4 #39

Governorships are not the presidency EnergizedLib Nov 4 #41

presidential elections are binary bigtree Nov 4 #42

I'm trying to see how we can get out of this nightmare EnergizedLib Nov 4 #47

it makes sense as a rhetorical question bigtree Nov 5 #97

Hillary suffered because of... Blasphemer Nov 4 #40

They weren't worse. yellow dahlia Nov 4 #43

Don't peddle right-wing talking points, smears, or sources Melon Nov 4 #44

I'm not giving my own personal opinion EnergizedLib Nov 4 #46

It's always worth asking. But I feel like people here blame the voters. Melon Nov 4 #49

As far as Hillary is concerned, a explicit campaign against her started when she was First Lady of Arkansas. Sogo Nov 4 #50

Millions of bots mahina Nov 4 #52

You've analyzed a different question than you asked. Ms. Toad Nov 4 #53

In my opinion, both were better EnergizedLib Nov 4 #61

Hate to say it, their voices IbogaProject Nov 4 #55

Cuz sounding "presidential" means sounding male. Sparkly Nov 4 #62

No just many races are won by the smoother talker IbogaProject Nov 4 #69

Which is better? Baritone or Tenor? Sounds like Alto and Soprano just won't cut it. Ya think? Hekate Nov 4 #72

Hilary beat Bernie IbogaProject Nov 4 #75

Misogyny and racism and anti-intellectualism. Two VERY SMART, niyad Nov 4 #57

This Hekate Nov 4 #73

Russia bots on all social media focused on weak minded voters, the same russian cyberwar that calls in yaesu Nov 4 #58

They were women. bamagal62 Nov 4 #60

word CatWoman Nov 4 #74

black and woman. next question dsp3000 Nov 4 #63

E Skum's (N-ZA) dweller Nov 4 #67

Algorithim-fueled propaganda. legallyblondeNYC Nov 4 #70

If past history is a guide, they both had an uphill climb. MichMan Nov 4 #71

George Bush was sitting VP in 1988 ITAL Nov 5 #79

Correct, but as you noted, that still means still once in the last 188 years MichMan Nov 5 #88

They both have XX chromosomes. Laffy Kat Nov 5 #76

We (and Biden in 2020) got to run against Trump's MAGA control of our government. W_HAMILTON Nov 5 #81

Why lump them together? BWdem4life Nov 5 #83

Look at who won tonight flamingdem Nov 5 #84

Hillary voted most admired woman for 17 years in a row, popular senator (Al Franken describes betsuni Nov 5 #85

I have theories but they're just my opinions Samael13 Nov 5 #86

Comey and racism maxrandb Nov 5 #89

Political spin and sealions nt Torchlight Nov 5 #91

Dudes dont like a woman with more power sunflowerseed Nov 5 #92

Utter Stupidity! MineralMan Nov 5 #93

The obvious reason of course. Yes, there are other reasons, but let's face it, directly or indirectly, a lot of it was.. themaguffin Nov 5 #94

Both had to run after a democratic president had been in office pinkstarburst Nov 5 #95