General Discussion

Benton D Struckcheon

(2,347 posts)

87. And?

Sat May 10, 2014, 07:33 PM

May 2014

I think (may be wrong about this) even Russia has some sort of association agreement with NATO. And once again, the agreement you cited was for Ukraine to cooperate with EU military, not NATO. These are two separate things.
So, one more time, since I know you're deliberately attempting to obfuscate this: Ukraine was not up for NATO membership. They were up for EU association, and that had, if you're to be believed (not disputing it for now) some sort of military cooperation re EU built into it.
This OP is all about NATO, so that EU agreement is utterly irrelevant.
That 2008 memo is completely irrelevant.
As much as you are trying to not admit it, NATO had precisely nothing to do with Crimea, and nothing to do with the current troubles in Ukraine. Some parts of Russia's MIC apparently think NATO is a good way to goose their budget. Not exactly news. Has nothing to do with Ukraine.

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Wikileaks Ukraine cable proves US government knew of fascist threat [View all] go west young man May 2014 OP

Truth will out malaise May 2014 #1

remember that... dvduval May 2014 #23

There is no doubt about that.... go west young man May 2014 #50

so you are for the election Duckhunter935 May 2014 #58

No, I'm for separation.... go west young man May 2014 #68

then they should do it the legal democratic way Duckhunter935 May 2014 #72

Couldn't your question be asked completely in reverse to the Kiev coup? go west young man May 2014 #80

You know what? I see you are not going to look at data nadinbrzezinski May 2014 #95

Post removed Post removed May 2014 #97

Thats real nice Duckhunter935 May 2014 #101

Do you support Coup D'etats in Democracies as a way to remove leaders? Should we have done that sabrina 1 May 2014 #103

No since that did not happen in Ukraine Duckhunter935 May 2014 #105

There was a coup in Ukraine, are you actually denying that? sabrina 1 May 2014 #113

Yes, as the democratically elected Duckhunter935 May 2014 #117

There was no coup in Ukraine Recursion May 2014 #145

There was a coup in Ukraine and a president was installed without the consent of a majority of the sabrina 1 May 2014 #148

question Duckhunter935 May 2014 #112

Who voted for the current president of Ukraine?? sabrina 1 May 2014 #114

Their Elected Parliament, Ma'am The Magistrate May 2014 #115

like talking to a brick wall sir Duckhunter935 May 2014 #118

Why is Blackwater in Ukraine? There was a coup, the president is not elected. My question was 'who sabrina 1 May 2014 #120

There Is No Proof They Are, Ma'am: That Is A Sort Of 'Gish-Gallop', Really The Magistrate May 2014 #122

My question was simple, 'who elected the President of Ukraine' and you went off into the parliament sabrina 1 May 2014 #127

Your Question Was Answered, Ma'am: You Did Not Like It The Magistrate May 2014 #129

My position in my opinion, is based on a gathering of facts from multiple sources across the globe. sabrina 1 May 2014 #131

Your Position, Ma'am, Is Neither Consistent, Nor Grounded In Realities Of Governance and Revolution The Magistrate May 2014 #133

You can't have it both ways. On the one hand, you claim that the government is 'legitimate because sabrina 1 May 2014 #134

There Is no Contradiction, Ma'am The Magistrate May 2014 #137

Had protesters in this country beaten up police, the sabrina 1 May 2014 #143

You Are Attempting To Be Reasonable, Ma'am, But Still Distorting Facts Grotesquely The Magistrate May 2014 #147

I am speaking the truth. One doesn't have to struggle too hard to tell the truth. It simply is sabrina 1 May 2014 #149

What proof do you have that they are not there, though? KoKo May 2014 #135

That Cannot Be Meant Seriously, Ma'am The Magistrate May 2014 #138

I meant it very seriously sir...and you know very well about PNAC and what KoKo May 2014 #139

Then Please Understand, Ma'am The Magistrate May 2014 #140

Honestly ...... I'm not sure what about this is so hard to understand. nt. polly7 May 2014 #123

same here Duckhunter935 May 2014 #126

There is certainly huge resistance to what normally Democrats would be all over, as they were during sabrina 1 May 2014 #128

and the same elected parliment Duckhunter935 May 2014 #125

No elected Parliament in a Democratic Nation would condone a Coup of the duly elected President. sabrina 1 May 2014 #130

They voted for the Rada Duckhunter935 May 2014 #116

open question, please answer Duckhunter935 May 2014 #119

Why is Blackwater in Ukraine? Do you have any information about that? sabrina 1 May 2014 #121

do you have proof Duckhunter935 May 2014 #124

'A Rose By Any Other Name Would Smell as Sweet'! Of course they change their NAME but they still sabrina 1 May 2014 #132

So..why would Ukraine NEED or WANT to hire "Academi" (Blackwater/Xe..etc.)? KoKo May 2014 #136

My guess and only a guess Duckhunter935 May 2014 #141

If they are, it's the same reason they're anywhere else: someone's paying them to be Recursion May 2014 #146

Too late for an election AFTER a coup, don't you think? It's clear that at least half the country sabrina 1 May 2014 #144

"the US is backing and financing extremely violent right wing nationalist fascists" Zorra May 2014 #2

? go west young man May 2014 #3

I did not see that quote in the post. Did I miss it or is it from somewhere else? n/t pampango May 2014 #13

Just one question... Scootaloo May 2014 #14

That's a little harsh DisgustipatedinCA May 2014 #19

Why? Is the question..? newthinking May 2014 #142

The U.S. Govt's. intentions are fairly clear to me. stillwaiting May 2014 #4

Some creative reading and interpretation of events nadinbrzezinski May 2014 #5

Nadin.... go west young man May 2014 #7

This is why the application to NATO nadinbrzezinski May 2014 #11

Absolutely silly on it's face... go west young man May 2014 #15

So the Ukraine joined NATO? nadinbrzezinski May 2014 #17

So your arguing... go west young man May 2014 #20

IF THEY JOINED NATO Desert805 May 2014 #33

I see your deriving what you like and coming up go west young man May 2014 #37

No you're being confronted with facts that refute your rant. Benton D Struckcheon May 2014 #41

"what the fuck happened to it?" PoliticalPothead May 2014 #61

On the money. go west young man May 2014 #81

Operative words from the same cable nadinbrzezinski May 2014 #51

Nadin, go west young man May 2014 #52

I am not making your case nadinbrzezinski May 2014 #54

When did I mention isolationism? go west young man May 2014 #57

I get it, I get it, the US is evil and the rest of the world nadinbrzezinski May 2014 #59

I guess I can only wish I was as remarkable as you.... go west young man May 2014 #62

I am telling you to get the course work nadinbrzezinski May 2014 #74

Sorry, you struck out on this one nadin. polly7 May 2014 #63

Nice misreading nadinbrzezinski May 2014 #73

Your own words - own them. nt. polly7 May 2014 #75

Which you proceeded to misrepresent nadinbrzezinski May 2014 #79

For misrepresnting what I said, nadinbrzezinski May 2014 #93

Nah ........ I didn't represent what you said. polly7 May 2014 #94

Peace. go west young man May 2014 #98

Is this advocating some sort of U.S. military intervention on our part? randome May 2014 #6

It is a revealing moment... go west young man May 2014 #8

No one can predict the future. There were risks, of course. randome May 2014 #10

What's your point on the cable being 6 years old? go west young man May 2014 #16

"Legitimate interests," according to Lavrov. randome May 2014 #22

If you don't see the fascist aspect you choose to be blind. go west young man May 2014 #26

I don't know how anyone can deny it anymore. polly7 May 2014 #31

Great post and great links. go west young man May 2014 #39

Aww ... no, I'm very far from that, polly7 May 2014 #42

And China does business with the U.S., which has its own right-wing fascists. randome May 2014 #38

It is direct support for murder....right now.... go west young man May 2014 #40

and Germany and Duckhunter935 May 2014 #43

"But supporting a government that also happens to include right-wing fascists is not putting.. Cha May 2014 #100

This message was self-deleted by its author polly7 May 2014 #18

Thanks Polly.... go west young man May 2014 #21

I agree completely .... and well said. polly7 May 2014 #24

Me too.... go west young man May 2014 #32

do you feel the same way Duckhunter935 May 2014 #36

Show me the photos.... go west young man May 2014 #46

You also have videos Duckhunter935 May 2014 #49

People are dying on both sides...that is obvious to the most basic simpleton... go west young man May 2014 #60

....+1 840high May 2014 #96

Of course Russia's fears are validated malaise May 2014 #45

its over 6 years old Duckhunter935 May 2014 #9

I would suggest to Putin that annexing eastern Ukraine will bring NATO to his border. pampango May 2014 #12

like duh. and so? what do we do? please. this is hoopla. pansypoo53219 May 2014 #25

Excellent post..... go west young man May 2014 #82

Feb.2008. Get real. blm May 2014 #27

Playing the fascist card will only run into a wall of moral equivalency Jack Rabbit May 2014 #28

well put. nt arely staircase May 2014 #30

Personally I see what I think is a bigger picture.... go west young man May 2014 #35

To really get a big picture, you should expand your horizons Jack Rabbit May 2014 #55

People said the same about Putin in regards to Georgia in 2008... go west young man May 2014 #64

Alas, none in the west used the term Novorossiya nadinbrzezinski May 2014 #90

New Russia has been being used since Putin came to power. go west young man May 2014 #91

Yes, care to use the Google a tad more nadinbrzezinski May 2014 #92

This message was self-deleted by its author go west young man May 2014 #99

Another thing... go west young man May 2014 #66

You are seriously ProSense May 2014 #67

Maybe you should research "The Great Game".... go west young man May 2014 #69

Will that change the fact that the cable is from 2008 and the OP is pro-Russian spin? n/t ProSense May 2014 #70

The Op is anti-fascist focused... go west young man May 2014 #77

LOL! "Russia is not in this equation at this point... " ProSense May 2014 #78

Writes the person..... go west young man May 2014 #83

You've really accomplished something, young man Jack Rabbit May 2014 #89

Exactly, Mr. Rabbit The Magistrate May 2014 #44

Thank you, sir Jack Rabbit May 2014 #56

Putin is the fascist threat. nt arely staircase May 2014 #29

WTF???? Benton D Struckcheon May 2014 #34

EU - Ukraine Association Agenda jakeXT May 2014 #47

Bullshit. Benton D Struckcheon May 2014 #53

They are still cooperating with NATO on Afghanistan supplies, but in 2010 they also posted their jakeXT May 2014 #71

So they consider NATO on their borders a number one threat, Benton D Struckcheon May 2014 #84

There are different kind of stages of involvement, Sweden for example has participated in NATO jakeXT May 2014 #86

And? Benton D Struckcheon May 2014 #87

Some observers like Kucinich or Cohen didn't trust the military part, maybe Russia did too jakeXT May 2014 #88

A cable from 2008??? No shit...got anything from the current decade???? nt msanthrope May 2014 #48

I've already address this question numerous times above. go west young man May 2014 #85

We are really on the wrong side of history on the matter Obnoxious_One May 2014 #65

Thanks for this..... go west young man May 2014 #76

Jen Psaki, looks like a human being. Obnoxious_One May 2014 #102

This is how our 'allies' in Svobda get the media to cooperate. Obnoxious_One May 2014 #104

In the East they just kidnap reporters Duckhunter935 May 2014 #106

Well this is what happened with the new 'legitimate' government in Parliment today. Obnoxious_One May 2014 #107

well they did not murder him Duckhunter935 May 2014 #108

For some reason you think that being anti-nazi equates to thinking that America should Obnoxious_One May 2014 #109

so you are calling the elected Ukranian government Duckhunter935 May 2014 #110

Yes I call people that burn people alive and murder them animals, read the article from #65. Obnoxious_One May 2014 #111